Transcript

Erin Hawley:

Hi, listeners. Today on the podcast, we have Cory Lee. So welcome to the podcast, Cory.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. Glad to be here with you.

Lily Newton:

Thank you for coming on. Listeners, just a little bit about Cory. After being diagnosed with spinal muscular atrophy at the age of 2, Cory Lee's thirst for adventure never ceased. He has traveled across all 7 continents in his powered wheelchair while managing to run his travel blog, Curb Free with Cory Lee, which we will definitely get into in this episode. It's a great blog, listeners. Check it out. He shares accessible and sometimes not so accessible travel adventures with others.

Erin Hawley:

And Cory has also published a children's book, Let's Explore with Poetry. I love that title. That's so cute. And it says annual trips where his followers can join him in international destinations. And in 2022, he launched the Tradefree Foundation. This is a nonprofit that provides wheelchair users with travel plans to go on their dream trip. So as always, Hori's goal is to inspire other wheelchair users to roll out other transfer zones and see the beauty that the world has to offer.

Lily Newton:

We are so excited to have you on the podcast. Before we dive into questions, let's go ahead and do our audio description so I can take that away and start with that. This is Lily speaking. I am a white passing woman in my mid twenties. I have green eyes and brown hair, and I am wearing my usual gold hoop earrings and the necklace, and I will fidget with both during the episode. Erin, you wanna do yours?

Erin Hawley:

Yep. I'm Erin, and I'm wearing an orange shirt. And I have red hair and blue eyes, and I'm sitting in my very dark bedroom.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm Cory, and I, am a white male. I'm 34 years old wearing a pink t shirt, and I have black hair and black glasses as well. Yep. Cool.

Lily Newton:

Awesome. Well, welcome to everything you know about disability is wrong. I think this is gonna be a great episode.

Erin Hawley:

Totally.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. I'm really excited to be here with you guys, and I appreciate the offer to meet you on the podcast.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah. Thank you. We definitely love having you here. Our podcast is called anything you know about disability is wrong. And we'd like to ask all our guests, what do people get wrong about you and also your disability?

Cory Lee:

I mean, I feel like there's so much we can unpack here, but one thing that has been driving me like bonkers lately is that people will not even, like, talk to me when I'm, like, out in public. Like, I was in Chicago this past week and, at a few restaurants that I went to, they kept looking at the person that was traveling with me and asking them like, well, what does he want to eat? Or, how can we best assist him with getting on the plane or why they always refer to them. And, like, I haven't really started noticing that until, like, the past, like, maybe year. And it feels like it's getting worse, instead of better, which is, like, really upsetting. But it's like something that I've definitely been noticing a lot more lately. And it, like every time it happens, I am it, it drives me wild.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. I strongly dislike that that's getting worse. Like, that's awful to have to notice more. I feel like that's such a, I don't know, it feels like it should be such common sense. Like, talk to the person you're talking to, but it's, like, not for some reason. And I think I know we've spoken to people who use, like interpreters as well, and they've had a similar experience where people will speak only to the interpreter. And it's like, what? Such ableism and bogusness? That's the worst.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah.

Cory Lee:

And Like, even even even, you know, even if I couldn't speak, like still at least try. And then I'm sure, like, if I couldn't speak, my companion would like speak up for me, but at least like give the effort, you know? So yeah, I mean, hopefully, it'll get better eventually.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah. I do look at, like, all the time. And, actually, I went to the doctor last week or the week before. I went to the doctor and this whole experience was horrific. But, a nurse comes out and says to my mom in the waiting room, informing everybody, oh, why is she here today? And my mom was like, she's nauseous? And then this was like, how do you know she's nauseous? And my mom's like, she told me? Like, I got your nurse starting to talk to me. It was just like, what?

Cory Lee:

Yeah. It's ridiculous. Wow.

Lily Newton:

Have either of you ever, like the only word I can think of is, like, clap back, but that's not, like, the right term for this. But have you, like, had the moment of being like, hey. You can speak to me directly.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. So usually when they do that and, like, they ask my companion something, I just, like, immediately speak up and, like, as loudly as I can and just, like, like, not cause a scene, but it'll, like, just, like, be obnoxiously loud. So they, like, get the point, like, oh, wow. Like, he can really speak, you know, like, maybe we should have asked him, you know. But, yeah, I definitely, like, try to talk a little louder. But, I mean, I don't necessarily, like, do a clap back, I guess. Maybe I should. Like, if you know it's something good that I could say, like, as a sarcastic response, I would love to hear it.

Cory Lee:

But, yeah.

Erin Hawley:

I, I don't clap back either. I just answer them, and I'm in, like, shocked. Had I said anything?

Cory Lee:

Right. That's good.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. Then you have to deal with the second layer of ableism there, the, like, shock of dismay. I'm like, wow. Yeah. It's it's frustrating that, like, you know, you don't wanna, like, make a scene, but it's like a scene should be made when you're not being treated as human. It's frustrating. Yeah. Absolutely.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. And I think that, you know, we in the autistic community, we talk about this a lot with people who use alternative communication devices. Same thing. Like, people just walk look directly at them even though they're communicating, but just in a different way. It's frustrating. Listeners, if you're, for some reason unsure where to look at, a great rule of thumb is to look at the person you're speaking to. It's usually a a good thing. Yeah.

Lily Newton:

For sure. And then so, you know, more on what people have gotten wrong about you. You we love Curb Free here at Easterseals. I think it's a phenomenal blog, and it aligns with just, like, you know, we want at Easterseals, we're really working for accessible travel, so, it's amazing you've created such, like, a resource for people who want to travel. Tell us a little bit about how you started Curb Free, and, also, you know, are are people often, like, shocked by the fact that you travel so much? Just tell us about that.

Cory Lee:

Oh, yeah. I mean, I definitely think people are shocked at the fact that I travel so much because I think, like, people just assume, you know, that wheelchair users, like, can't travel. And that was actually one of the reasons why I even started the vlog in the first place is I was about to graduate from college with my bachelor's degree in marketing, and I started putting out, like, job applications, trying to find a job, and nobody was responding. And I was disclosing my disability in those job applications. So I don't know that that was a factor of why they weren't responding, but history shows that that definitely doesn't help, in the job search. So maybe that was why, but eventually, I finally got a call from an advertising firm in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and they told me that they would pay for me to fly to Pittsburgh. I live in Georgia, so Atlanta is my home airport. And they would pay for me to fly from Atlanta to Pittsburgh the next day if I could fly up there, and they would give me a job interview.

And so I was, like, so excited, packed up my bags, flew to Pittsburgh the next day with a caregiver. And when I got to Pittsburgh, I immediately went to the hiring manager's office. And as soon as I rolled into his office, he come to, like, look me up and down. And the first words out of his mouth were he said, well, this job involves traveling, so you're definitely not the best fit. And he turned me away, like, immediately before I even got to do the interview that I, you know, flew to Pittsburgh or I was immediately, like, turned away. And so in that moment, I was, like, really dismayed and, like, sad and didn't know what the future held or if I would ever be able to have a career of any kind, even though I had, you know, spent these 4 years in college getting a degree in marketing. Like, what was that even for if people weren't gonna give me a chance, to get a job? And so around that same time, I was also researching for an upcoming trip to Australia. And I got online and started Googling like wheelchair accessible things to do in Sydney and wheelchair hotels in Sydney and, like, all the things that you need to research in advance of a trip as a wheelchair user.

But I quickly found that there was so little accessible travel information on the Internet, and that was back in late 2013. And so there just weren't a lot of resources out there, and I thought, you know, between the hiring manager, like, telling me I can't travel, and then realizing a lack of information on the Internet. Those two things kind of like merged in the same week, And that is what inspired me to start CurtFridges 4 Yearly. And so it's been a little over 10 years now since I started the blog, and it's been like better than anything I could have ever expected and definitely a whirlwind of an adventure, but in the best possible way.

Lily Newton:

Well, about that experience and that Pittsburgh hiring director. Oh my goodness. Like, just straight up discrimination there. Yeah. And, also, such a wild thing for him to say because you had literally just flown there. Like, you had they had said, like, you're gonna have to fly out here immediately. Like, they they kind of put the test in place, like, are people willing to travel for this position that requires travel? And you passed the test.

Cory Lee:

Yeah, exactly.

Lily Newton:

And then they still said that. That's absolutely ridiculous. And I think of how many, like, how much money that company wasted, 1, flying someone out and not even giving them a chance, and how many phenomenal people that they could have hired that probably they just never gave a chance to. I think that, like, you know, money is the way that things tend to, like, change in this world. And I think that that's something employers need to understand is, like, your discrimination is costing you dollars.

Cory Lee:

Exactly.

Lily Newton:

Like, think about I mean, how successful curb free, you started 10 years ago. It's such a successful blog. That that company that didn't hire you as a marketer is, like, probably reading and weeping like, oh, man, we missed out on someone who's really great at writing and marketing like that.

Cory Lee:

I know. I wish --

Lily Newton:

That is so frustrating.

Cory Lee:

I wish I would've like started collecting postcards now, your way, everywhere that I do travel and send it to that like hiring manager. Like how epic would that that be? But I I I'm also petty, but I I really think I should be it sometimes.

Lily Newton:

I really think you should be too. That would be awesome. Like, 15 years later, still getting postcards, and they haven't left Pittsburgh once that whole time, and you're traveling the whole world.

Cory Lee:

Oh, yeah. Thank you.

Erin Hawley:

I love the idea of sending land perse tides. It'll all be ships.

Cory Lee:

May maybe I'll do it eventually. I I mean, I really should. It would be hilarious. They probably don't even don't even remember me at this point, but I should have just done it from the beginning for sure.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah.

Lily Newton:

Alright. Well, you know, there's gotta be someone listening out there that has recent this is, unfortunately, this type of discrimination is not uncommon even 10 years later. And so, you know, maybe we can't necessarily fix the employment world immediately, but we can offer something very petty for years to do. So I think that that's an amazing thing. Please do it.

Please do and then reach out to us and let us know because I would love it if we could, you know, that's like what we became known for is inspiring people to do really petty things in the face of ableism. That is, you know, that's what everything you know about disability is wrong. You don't know that we're clever and we're petty. Exactly. We've dealt with a lot of bullshit. When you deal with a lot of bullshit, you think of funny ideas like, I should send them a postcard.

Cory Lee:

Oh, yeah. For sure.

Erin Hawley:

So, Cory, you're also starting the Curb Free Foundation. And can you tell us a bit more about that?

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Absolutely. I started that back in 2022, the Curb Free Foundation, and it was something that I had really wanted to do for years just because every time I go on a trip, like if I am going to Barcelona, for example, like that trip, I'm not exchange for me writing about accessibility in that destination, like, they will cover flights, hotels, like, everything that goes into traveling, which is amazing. But for, you know, the average person that doesn't have a blog or isn't an influencer, then, you know, how are they realistically able to afford these types of trips? And so that was a comment that I kept receiving over and over and over as I would go on these trips is, well, this looks amazing, but I realistically couldn't afford to go on this trip, even though it's like my dream trip. And so I thought, you know, there needs to be a foundation or like a nonprofit where wheelchair users could, like, apply for funding and get their, like, dream trip completely paid for, and it would cost them anything to go. And so for years, I had this idea, and then the pandemic happened. And I like a lot of free time to finally like dive into things and think about it. And so, in 2020, in early 2022, we finally launched the curb free foundation.

Cory Lee:

And so on the curb free foundation.com wheelchair users can go on there, fill out our application and let us know what their dream trip is, what destination do they wanna go to, and most importantly, why is that a dream trip for them? And then we go through the applications a couple times every year and choose, the recipients. And so so far, we have been able to send 6 wheelchair users on their drink trips. We are sending someone to Morocco next month, which I am so excited to see her journey. Morocco is a destination that she has wanted to go to since she was a little kid and she's now in her fifties, I think. But she's finally getting to go. And so just being able to give off those trips, to people that are so deserving is really what my favorite thing that we've ever done at Curb Free. So I love it every time I go to those applications.

Erin Hawley:

I love that. Like, I I also love that you're providing these trips to other disabled people, And it's really about, like, community and working together to, like, overcome these, you know, financial barriers or whatever barriers may be. I just think that's really very awesome.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, it's really incredible just to be able to do that and, to be able to, like, give back to the community that has, like, enabled me to, you know, be able to travel for the past 10 years and supported me.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. I think it's really also just amazing to promote, like, travel so much for like, these destinations then are having more disabled people visiting. And I think, you know, there's this kind of self fulfilling prophecy in inaccessibility where spaces that are inaccessible will say, like, well, it's it's not worth it for us to make this place accessible because no one we don't have anyone who uses a wheelchair that comes here. And it's like, well, that that is a self fulfilling prophecy right there. And I think that, you know, the more. We're you know, we're still living in a world that has the impacts of the like hideaway disability culture that used to exist. And so the more that we can be, like, loud and proud and about town, openly disabled, I think that that's incredible. And, like, hopefully, you know, there's places in Morocco now that are, like, seeing, like, oh, hey, this accessible this accessible space is getting more people to come to it.

Like, I think that that's really amazing, and I just love that you used your downtime from the pandemic to be like, okay. Well, this has been great for me. How do I make it great for other people? Just really incredible work you're doing. That's so awesome. And, like, what a joy that must be to get to. How do you how do you tell someone that they've been selected, that they, like, got chosen and are gonna get to go on their dream trip?

Cory Lee:

Yeah. So our committee, there are 5 of us. We go through every single application thoroughly. And then once we have our finalists, we, just email them or call them and set up an interview. And so we'll do, like, a video interview with them just to learn more about, like, why they chose that destination for their dream trip, what it would mean to them to be able to win or to get it funded, and just really learn more about them as a person even. And then once we conduct the interviews with the finalists, we then choose the winner the the committee does. And we, you know, send them a check and they're on their merry way. So we cover every expense that we can think of that they would need.

If they need to take a caregiver, we will cover that as well. We cover flights, hotels, tour companies, special accessible transportation. So when we also give them, like, spending money so they can, like, buy souvenirs. So I don't want them to, like, you know, get to the destination and then they're like, well, you know, I can't afford, like, a $20 souvenir because I need to pay for, like, the seller's stuff. So we really want every single step to be fully taken care of, when they do get to the destination.

Lily Newton:

That sounds so amazing. And you're like, not only are you giving this gift of, like, getting to go to a place, but because it's something that you have experienced firsthand, there's this level of, like, ease that you create for a situation that I'm sure people did not expect there to be any ease in.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Yeah.

Lily Newton:

So, like, the fact that you know to think through all of those things, like, because you've traveled a lot, I think that's incredible and probably makes the experience just so wonderful. I mean,

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah.

Lily Newton:

How how often do you get to, like, not think and not plan? Like, very few people like, that's such a luxury, so it's nice that you create that kind of luxury experience where you've thought through, like, yeah. We want you to be able to get souvenirs and enjoy yourself, eat good food, and see yourself. Like, that's incredible.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. And with the the lady that's going to Morocco next month, I went to Morocco back in 2018 on the first ever curb free girth trip, which we'll probably dive into in a bit. But, when we did that girth trip, I used a tour company in Morocco. They, like, specialized in accessibility. Set the lady that's going to Morocco next month up with the exact same tour company. They're like really great guys that really have scouted Morocco for accessibility. So I know she's, like, gonna be in good hands, and that you know, more so with a disability and you've not been out of the country or to a specific country that you're going to, there is so much like anxiety behind that of what's going to go right, what's going to go wrong because usually something does go wrong on every trip. And just, you know, the worry of that can be overwhelming at times.

Cory Lee:

So I mean, anything that we can do to ease that burden, I think is valuable.

Erin Hawley:

Absolutely. Totally. That's awesome. So I also wanna ask you about your children's book that I mentioned. How did you get into that?

Cory Lee:

Yeah. So that was another pandemic project. So I was like busy that year. I was at home, but I was busy. So my mom and I co wrote Let's explore with core core, and it's all about a kid in a wheelchair that travels the world. And every destination that's featured in the book that CoreCORE visits is one that I have actually been to. So they are destinations that are totally accessible for wheelchair users and, like, you could definitely go to every destination in the book. So Korkor goes to Australia.

Cory Lee:

He goes to South Africa, Iceland, London. He used to come to all over the world in this book. So, and it was a lot of fun to put together and I'm really, like my favorite thing about it really though, I mean, we did write it for children with disabilities to be able to, you know, see a character and feel represented, that he uses a powered wheelchair. But I also really love that even, like, nondisabled kids are reading this book and starting to, like, understand at a young age, you know, that, like, well, people that use wheelchairs, like, they can actually travel and they can have these, like, really incredible lives and they can be, like, core core and go see the world. And so, it's been really fulfilling just to be able to see the impact that the book has had. And I haven't, like, announced this anywhere yet, but we have just started, on the second book. So it's fully written, and our illustrator is about a fourth of the way done. So we're hoping to release it toward the end of this year or in early 2025.

Lily Newton:

Look at this. So exciting. And everything you know, exclusive announcement. That's incredible. Yeah. That's amazing. I have, 4 nieces and nephews under the age of 5.

Cory Lee:

Oh, wow.

Lily Newton:

And, like, I since spending time with them, I have such, like, new love for children's book authors because for real, these books, like, they shape their entire perception of reality. And, like, I see in my nieces and nephews, like, I see them, you know, relating to the world through these characters that they've seen in books, and it's like yeah, when a child at such a young age just intrinsically knows because of a character that people in wheelchairs can travel and there's no need to be surprised when you see that, then, you know, we hopefully it's like a really fun way to kind of stamp out the ableism we started with at the beginning of the call because I think that, you know, the people who are shocked to see wheelchair users traveling and don't speak directly to people who have caregivers, like those are the type of people that they didn't grow up with disability representation. They have these outdated stereotypes, and they think, like, they think that their surprise is normal. And I think that, you know, this next generation of kids that have, like, book characters, movie characters, TV show characters that have disabilities and use wheelchairs and are still amazing and doing cool things. I just think that's incredible for both disabled kids to get to see themselves and nondisabled kids to just understand that disability is a part of life, and it's nothing shocking or surprising, actually, because it's a recurring thing on this show. We say go moms, like, once an episode because moms are incredible, and they always come up on the show. So I love that you wrote this with your mom. What was your mom's, like, role in your life in creating your love of travel and helping you travel from a young age?

Cory Lee:

Yeah. So my mom and dad got divorced when I was, like, 4 years old. And so she raised me as a single parent for my entire life, pretty much. So I'm definitely, a widow to her. Go moms. We, she I remember, like, the first trip that I vividly remember. We went to Disney World, in Florida, which, I'm still like a Disney addict. I go a couple times a year usually, but, we went to Disney and that was like such like a great trip for me.

Just as my first trip ever. And then as I started getting older though, we did start traveling to other places and we would go to DC or New York City. And then when I was 15, we went to the Bahamas for the first time, and that was kind of the first time that I got to see, like, a different culture and, like, try different foods and just see something different than the US. And so, when I went to the Bahamas, I was like, the travel bug fully bit me, and that trip and made me want to explore further. And so, my my mom has always loved traveling, but when I was younger, we didn't really travel as in-depth as I do now and as internationally as we do now. But, now as of today, my mom and I have done all 7 continents together, and so, it's been an incredible journey, like, with Irma Maasai for sure.

Lily Newton:

That is incredible. That's so all 7 continents. That's so cool. Yeah. Wow. I love that. And, yeah, go, moms. Yeah.

That that's awesome. Just a great a reminder, I think for listeners, like if you are the parent of a child who has any type of disability, like, don't underestimate what your life can be together. And like, I think that that, you know, your mom had the travel travel bug and gave it to you. And I think that that's just really incredible. So go, moms. That's we always say when we get merch someday, that's gonna be on on one of our t shirts.

Cory Lee:

Go on. Don't because I would buy it

Lily Newton:

Supportive mom makes all the difference. Oh, yeah. Okay. Cool. We'll mark you down for an order. We'll we'll do a trade. We'll we'll get your new book and you can get our our merch someday.

Cory Lee:

Bill, what's it?

Lily Newton:

So. I promise that we will talk about good travel experiences before want to kind of address the elephant in the room. We have a problem with our airline industry and inaccessible travel. There's, like, a stat that says there's something like 31 wheelchairs a day get broken, which is just an unacceptable statistic. What has your experience been with that and, have you ever had any equipment damaged while traveling?

Cory Lee:

Oh, yeah. Many, many times. I would say probably like 50% of the flights that I take, my wheelchair is damaged in some way. So luckily, it's usually like a pretty minor damage and we can, like, fix it while we're still in the airport. But sometimes, like, it has been damaged so badly on multiple occasions that I couldn't even drive my wheelchair out of the airport, and had to be manually, like, pushed out of the airport because it was so damaged. We flew last year. We were flying to Barcelona, Spain. And when we got to Barcelona, the front wheel on my wheelchair was like broke in half.

The thing that, like, holds the wheel on, like, I don't know what it is. So I'm like, I don't know. But anyway, the wheel was like literally hanging on by a thread and broken in half. And so, we like duct taped it together long enough for me to get to the hotel and then to a wheelchair repair shop. And we had to get it repaired while we were in Barcelona. So, I mean, it's, like, constantly something that I worry about every single time that I fly. I mean, if anyone's listening, like, and that does happen to you, I would really urge you to file a report with the Department of Transportation. So if you are not following a report with the DOT, then the airlines will not be held accountable, and your numbers will not get counted toward the statistics of, like, 31 chairs a day damaged.

Cory Lee:

And so the only way to really hold the airlines accountable and make them want to improve the situation and make a change is to really, like, get those COC reports in. So every single time it's damaged, definitely file it.

Lily Newton:

Wow. Yeah. I didn't I didn't realize that. And I'm sure there's a lot of people who don't realize, like, not just file a complaint with, like, the airline but with the Department of Transportation. So that those statistics are really important because when it comes to, like, regulating the airline industry and creating more accessibility, that's going to be done through policy. So with, those statistics that you can be a part unfortunately be a part of, through the Department of Transportation, those are the stats that get used then in hearings and in Congress to talk through these kind of things. So it is really important to report that, which stinks because it's just another, like, burden to be added. Like, oh, yeah.

Your wheelchair's gonna be broken, and you need to go to this government site and do this. Yeah. It's it really it's just frankly unacceptable that it's this is such a problem still, especially when, you know, we've got these, like, planes that are being created with these 1st class, like, cubicles, basically, where people can, you know, lay down. And there's so much space and there's 3 TVs and there's enough. Like, we know that we have the room to do things like that. So why aren't we creating airplanes where people can stay in their chairs for the duration of the flight? It's it it feels like the answer is right there, and I do hope that in the next few years, we see major changes because, yeah, those statistics are unacceptable. If an airline was breaking 31 people's legs a day, they would be shut down immediately.

Cory Lee:

Oh, yeah.

Lily Newton:

And that is effectively what's happening.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. And I do feel like the situation is definitely improving. I mean, over the past, like, 5 years even, I mean, air travel for wheelchair users has never been talked about more than it is currently. And so I feel like, you know, at least airlines are starting to kind of listen to us and the issue is being widely talked about and, like, media outlets have covered it. And then I know what the secretary of transportation, but Pete Buttigieg, he recently announced in a proposal for better accessible air travel and better training, for, you know, the crew that loads the wheelchair and helps wheelchair users onboard the plane. And so, like, it is being talked about, and there's a really good organization called All Wheels Up, and they are really the only organization in the world that is fighting to get a wheelchair spot on planes. They are conducting the crash testing and trying to raise money to, like, be able to conduct these tests so that one day we can stay on our wheelchairs on planes. And so, All Wheels Up is, like I mean, one of my favorite organizations in the world, and I think, you know, with them, like, we will see a change within the next decade, hopefully, sooner.

Cory Lee:

But, I mean, I feel like we're at least 5 to 10 years away from that actually happening.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. Absolutely. All Wheelz Up is amazing. Easterseals has worked with them a little bit, and I know we will continue to in the future because it's the the work they're doing is so incredible and, like, so specific about this this issue. Well, I don't wanna talk about all negative experiences. What has your best travel experience been in terms of accessibility?

Cory Lee:

I mean, I'm thinking about, like, a trip that I did last year. I went to Switzerland, and it was like

Erin Hawley:

Oh, cool.

Cory Lee:

Probably the most accessible trip I've taken in a very, very, very long time. So I worked with a company there called Claire and George. And Claire and George is a company that specializes in accessible tourism within Switzerland. So they had the accessible van that we were able to use. They had us a guide for the entire trip and every mode of transportation, whether we were using, like, the city buses or the trains or, taxis, like, every mode of transportation was completely accessible. So Switzerland, like is far ahead of the game compared to most other destinations. And I was even able to go adaptive paragliding over the Swiss Alps, which is something that I had, like, never even imagined that I would be able to do in Switzerland. And then to be able to like, have that experience of paragliding, like over the literal Swiss Alps, like was the most mind blowing thing in the world to me.

Cory Lee:

So they have like an adapted seat that I was able to sit in. So it was basically just like a chair, that I was like sitting in and then they strapped me in it to hold me in it really well, put a helmet on me and then we jumped off the mountain and it was like the most incredible thing I've ever done.

Lily Newton:

Wow. That's incredible.

Cory Lee:

You could do it. You could do it.

Erin Hawley:

That looks awesome that we love it. I don't know. I'm not afraid of heights, but I'm afraid of jumping off the mountain Yeah. When the time is

Cory Lee:

I mean, I was a little afraid too. I was definitely nervous about it. And even like that morning, I was like trying to back out of it. I was like, I mean, couldn't we just maybe, like, go eat fondue today again or, you know, like, do something different? But then I was like, I I might as well just like, fill the fear and go for it. Like, that's what I try to always say. Like, fill the fear and go for it. And, I tried a little by that. And so I just decided to do that and it went really well, luckily.

So, yeah, I survived and now I'm here to be on the podcast.

Lily Newton:

Feel the fear and go for it. I'm gonna I'm gonna write that down. I like that a lot. That's a good one.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Yeah.

Lily Newton:

It's a great phrase. And I actually had a similar experience. I went to Switzerland a few years ago with my, like, I think he was 89 at the time, my 89 year old grandfather. So he uses some mobility aids. And very similarly, it was like we kind of thought that he he really wanted to go to Switzerland. And we were like, this is a huge trip for an almost 90 year old man, and we were able to find, like, just very accessible things, and the transit system was very accessible and just overall. So kudos to Switzerland.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. That's awesome. Like, and and a lot of Europe like, I feel like it's very hit or miss and especially when you get to, like, you know, central Europe or like western Europe with, you know, the old, like, cobblestone and the architecture that isn't always accessible. So to be able to, like, go to Europe to somewhere like Switzerland and have, like, such a positive experience is just, like, amazing. So I cannot wait to go back one day. But there are so many, like, amazing experiences that I've had. Like, it's really hard to, like, choose Switzerland, but that's just, like, the one that happened pretty recently. So it's, like, at the top of mind, and I recently wrote an article about it.

Cory Lee:

So, it's very top of mind for me, but, yeah, incredible. I would urge you any one to go if you haven't been already.

Erin Hawley:

So I know that, like, traveling as a disabled person is not the easiest, but you've done it so many times. And I'm sure you have great advice for how to prepare for a trip. So what should someone with a disability how should they start? What do you pack? What do you, like, get all your ducks in a row? How's that process?

Cory Lee:

Yeah. So I I usually start planning for a trip anywhere between like 6 to 12 months in advance, some longer actually, just to be able to really give myself enough time to fully prepare for the trip and plan and all, like, accessibility, whether that's, like, planning accessible transportation or finding a really great accessible hotel or whatever. You know, all the things that go into traveling. Like, I feel like it does take more time as a wheelchair user, so that's why I love to have a pretty good lead time with 6 to 12 months on average, especially for international trips. I mean, maybe even more than that if you can. And that's not to say that, like, spontaneity, like, can't exist as a wheelchair user. Like, you can totally, like, be spontaneous at times and just, like, go on a trip and have a great time. But I feel like when I do plan further in advance and I've really, like, planned out everything, then when once I actually get to the destination, I can actually enjoy it more instead of worrying about, like, accessibility constantly and how am I gonna be able to do this and that.

And so I can just, like, enjoy it because I've already done the research. And so, that would be, like, I guess, my number one tip, about traveling. And then, like, you asked about, like, what do I pack? I pack a lot, so, I'm not a good packer. But, I always, like, take duct tape, bell double sided Velcro straps. I take duct tape, like, in case the wheelchair gets damaged in some way. We can usually use, like, duct tape or some little tools to, like, fix it a little bit. But then the double side is Velcro. A lot of the aisle chairs, which is, like, the really narrow chair that you get on the plane with, especially internationally, they don't have seat belts on them.

And so I take double sided Velcro and just wrap it around like myself and the aisle chair. And that way, you know, it acts as like a seat belt for me. And so that has been, like, a real game changer since I started taking that with me. And then I also use the Able Sling, which is like a transfer sling that I've just sat on, and then it has 4 handles on it so people are able to get, like, the handles and then pick me up out of my wheelchair by the handles and put me in the aisle chair and then into the plane seat. And that has like simplified the transferring process a 100% for me. Like it's literally changed my life, since I got that sling. And so it's really a total game changer and just makes it so much easier than them trying to, like, grab up under my arms and, like, grab up under my knees and transfer me instead. We can just simply use the sling, and it's a lot safer for me and for them as well for transferring me.

Erin Hawley:

That's great advice. I've seen you use it on your videos. I mean, it doesn't really I just said great advice. Did you find that is it easy to get online? How did you find that?

Cory Lee:

Yes. So it is available online. It's a little big company in the UK. But if you just search, like, Abel Sling, it'll come right up. There are also some other companies that make slings that are very similar in the US and they are a little bit cheaper because they are made in the US. So if you live in the US, they might be a good option. There is, one called ADAPS, and they're amazing. And then there's also another one called the Perfect Lift.

And, it's made by a mom. Her son has Duchenne, muscular dystrophy, and she's incredible. And so, yeah, definitely check them out. But also Able Sling is a great option.

Erin Hawley:

Cool. That's awesome. Yeah. And, Lily, did you wanna move on to the Easterseals, killers? Do it. Cool.

Lily Newton:

So this is an Easterseals podcast, obviously, and, Easterseals is working to bring equity and access in community, health, education, employment and transportation. So we just like to use the last little bit of our interview to kind of talk about these. We've obviously talked about transportation quite a bit and your experiences, and we touched on employment a little bit and discrimination you faced. So let's go ahead and start with community. I'd love to talk about the group trips that you had mentioned and the group trips that you've gone on and just kind of like what it is meant to get to experience travel in a community of people who understand the similar barriers you might face or just how that has been, creating these amazing communities? Because that's really what you're doing there is creating community.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, every year since 2018, we, with the exception of 2020, we have done a group free group trip. And so we've been able to visit some pretty remarkable places. We've gone to Morocco, Iceland, Costa Rica, Spain, Patagonia, and South America. And then next month, we're doing a curb free group trip in Greece. And later this year, we'll be doing a curb free group trip in Mexico. So, we've had some really awesome experiences.

And every year, that is like my favorite trip of the year just because it's really the only chance that I have to travel with other people with disabilities that like get what it's like to travel with a disability. And so on those trips we share like so many stories and tips and like try to help each other out. And we form like really lifelong friendships. Like, I mean, I'm friends with like everyone that's going to make her free trip. I mean, has been just amazing, and we still talk today. I mean, I was talking to, 3 of them yesterday, I actually, like messaging, and they're going on future car free trips. And so, it's really a great community and, what my favorite trip every year. So I cannot wait to always let go on the Netherlands.

So I'm really excited for next month to be able to get degrees and experience it with some of my followers and audience.

Erin Hawley:

That's amazing. I love that. Yeah. I will go to the degrees one day, maybe

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Yeah.

Erin Hawley:

If it, you know, let me bring my chair onto the plane. Yeah. I'm gonna be traveling. You'll never see me again.

Cory Lee:

Alright. I'll say the same thing. Well, once I can roll in the plane, my I will never return home again.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah. Totally.

Lily Newton:

That's again, the the money talks. Like, airlines, come on. Like, we're gonna be traveling. The more accessible you make this

Cory Lee:

Oh, yeah.

Lily Newton:

That's amazing, though, what you're doing, that community, just so incredible. It makes me think, like, of, I don't know if you saw the documentary about that was on Netflix a few years ago, Crip Camp, about that camp that Judy Heumann went to. Yeah. And just like that documentary made me think about, like, the, like, summer camps that Easterseals has and like these. It's just so nice when you have these memories you can make with people who you don't have to, like, explain so much backstory to. Like, they're just, you know, how often do you get to be in a group where, like, the majority of people understand disability rather than, like, just a handful? I think that that's honestly was part of why Aaron and I wanted to make this podcast was to have a space where it was, like, how often do you get to be, you know, in a room? It's virtual, but in a room with 3 people and all 3 people are disabled. Like, that's such a rare thing and it's such you know, just what you said, you make amazing memories and look forward to it every year. That makes total sense.

I think that, you're a real community builder there, and I think community builders are really, really important.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Thank you. And, I mean, I think another thing that I really, really love about the group trips is, like, that we do go to international destinations every year. And so we really try to choose places that maybe wouldn't think of as necessarily being, like, wheelchair accessible or wheelchair friendly. And so when we are, like, rolling through the alleyways of America, sure, we're in the mountains of Patagonia, like in South America. Like and when, you know, people that are local see us traveling within their destination, that's often, like, the first time that they've seen someone in a powered wheelchair, like, rolling through the alleyways of Marrakesh. And then when they see 4 of us all at one time, they're like, wow. You know, I feel like we're kind of changing perceptions, like when we do go on these trips.

And so I think that's, like, another one of my favorite things about these trips is that we are able to change perceptions within that local destination, hopefully.

Erin Hawley:

I think it's very it's very important to, like I don't wanna say educate people, but show them that we read full lives. And I don't think a lot of people understand that and what that means, but, like, just being out there, in my opinion, is like a form of activism just existing in public because a lot of people assume that we just don't leave the house ever. We don't have jobs. We don't have relationships. So I think it's just really important to for us to get out there, like you said. Just put ourselves out there, enjoy life, and see what happens.

Cory Lee:

I completely agree. Yeah.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. And the the joy aspect there, there's like, you know, the the people say, like, joy can be resistance. Like, in that like, there's too many people who still believe the, like, tragic disabled story, like, the every disabled person lives, like, this tragic life, and there's no joy. And I would love to see someone who, like, you know, is has those kind of, like, thoughts and stereotypes embedded within them, get to see a group of, like, you know, like you said, 4 wheelchair users rolling down the streets of Marrakesh giggling together, like, laughing and, like, having just, like, joy.

Cory Lee:

Oh, yeah. For sure.

Erin Hawley:

And I also wanna point out, like, that even if you don't leave the house, you can still find joy Absolutely. And leave a full life. I just wanna say that because I think, like, there's a lot of barriers in place for people in society and accessibility. You know, your own health care needs, like, you can't travel or go out, but that to me is different than, like, people assuming that will, you know, don't leave their lives.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. I completely agree, Erin.

Lily Newton:

And I I think for me to really yeah.

Cory Lee:

I mean, I think that's a really good point that you brought up, Erin, that, I mean, even if someone, you know, can't necessarily travel, there's so many resources available online now where you can, like, virtually travel. Like, you can virtually do tours of cities now. I'm like, I mean, it's really incredible at what all the internet can provide. So I mean, even, you know, if you aren't able to travel in person, you can still find a lot of, like, travel joy at home, I believe.

Erin Hawley:

Totally. I love watching people on YouTube, like, travel because right now, I can't travel, but it's just nice to see, like, the world even if it's on the computer screen. It's really it's fun. I like it.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Yeah. And there's never been, like, more, like, accessible travel influencers than there are today or, like, travel shows. I mean, the information is very, very widely available now, which I'm super thankful for because like, for me, it really allows me to, like, be able to research more and figure out, you know, what's accessible, like, from, like, firsthand from other wheelchair users instead of just relying on information on Google, you know, when I'm traveling. So I love to get those, like, firsthand perspectives from, like, YouTube videos or an Instagram or Facebook Facebook or wherever it may be.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. I just think it's like whether it's that you you assume that people who need to stay home have sad lives or people can't leave the home. Like, either way, the assumptions are bad. And just, like, letting go of assumption is the most important part, I think. Absolutely. And I'm so I mean, just what like, the Internet has done just wonders for being able to community build online. One thing I wanted to bring up was which, Erin, you kind of touched on. Healthcare is a barrier for a lot of people with traveling.

Lily Newton:

How do you manage your healthcare while traveling?

Cory Lee:

So I do always have travel insurance. I have never left home without it for the past, like 5 years probably. So, it is really hard to find a travel insurance though that will cover preexisting medical conditions. And so they're the one the company that I use is Allianz Travel Insurance. And they do cover preexisting medical conditions and it has saved me 1,000 of dollars numerous times. I was in New Mexico a few years ago, on a trip, and I was in my shower wheelchair about to get in the shower. And one of the wheels on the chair locked up and it threw me into the floor and actually fractured my skull and had a brain bleed from that. And so I was hospitalized.

But the travel insurance covered 100% of those costs. And so I am like, I will not even leave my front door if I don't have travel insurance now. So, and I can imagine like what I would have done without that. And so, if you're traveling, I don't think, you know, that is a necessity, especially if you have a disability is to have travel insurance, but yeah, I definitely get it.

Erin Hawley:

That is yeah. That's terrifying.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. Yeah. That's terrifying.

Lily Newton:

That's so scary, but also so amazing that they covered that 100%. I think that I would not I would not expect travel insurance to, like, go that far so that listeners take that advice for real. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my really important.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. The I get an annual plan, like, every year, so I'm covered for the entire year. And for the annual plan, it's, like, $400, or maybe, like, 500. But, it covers you for the whole year. You know? And so paying that $400 compared to, I think, my bill from when I fractured my skull was over, like, 50,000, dollars. And so I'm there's no way, like, you know, I could have done that. So, you know, travel insurance. Like, I am a huge advocate for it ever since then.

Erin Hawley:

That's great advice. But, yeah, we really honestly, we really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your story and what you did with 3. I think you're incredible. I've been following you online for quite a long time, So to be able to chat with you is one of my favorite things.

Cory Lee:

Wow. Thank you so much.

Erin Hawley:

So thank you for being on.

Cory Lee:

Yeah. That really means a lot. And I appreciate it.

Erin Hawley:

Of course. And, how can people find you online?

Cory Lee:

Yeah. So my blog is at curbfreewithcorilee.com. And then I'm also on Instagram. I post pretty much every single day. I'm at Curb Free Corie Lee. And then I'm also on Facebook, curb free with Corie Lee, TikTok, all the platforms. But, yeah, just search Curb Free with Corie Lee, and I'll shake that right up. And if anyone is listening and has any questions for me about accessible travel, feel free to DM me or email me, through my contact page on my website, and I'm always happy to chat further and hopefully help you get out there and see the world.

Lily Newton:

Oh, thank you so much for going on this episode today. Yeah. Like Erin said, we we think the work you do is is super awesome, and you're you're a phenomenal writer. I love writing reading the things that you've written. Listeners, we will link all of those, accounts that were just listed off. They'll be linked in the YouTube video, and I'm sure we'll post on Instagram. We'll tag Cory so you can find him on there. Even if you aren't looking to plan a trip, he's just a great follow to see amazing content.

So thank you so much for coming on today. This is a great conversation, and I think it will change some people's perception of what they think about, what we can do and where we can go. So really appreciate it. Really happy to have you on. And listeners, as always, thank you for tuning in. We love you, and we will see you next time on another episode of Everything You Know About Disability is Wrong.

Erin Hawley:

If you guys want to hear, join our hand and subscribe, and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts.

Lily Newton:

Thank you to our listeners. And as always, thank you to Easterseals for giving us the space and resources to share such authentic conversations from within the disability community to our listeners.

Erin Hawley:

And I'll see you next time for another episode episode of everything you know about disability is wrong.

Lily Newton (commercial segment):

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You know, we actually work for Easterseals, but maybe our listeners don't know what we do.

Lily Newton(commercial segment):

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And did you know we've been doing this for more than a century?

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