Episode 31: Just Between Us: All I Want is Real Portrayals in Film

Everything You Know About Disability Is Wrong Podcast

December 9, 2024

Episode 31 Show Notes

Your co-hosts Lily Newton and Erin Hawley return with a candid "Just Between Us" segment on this episode of Everything You Know. They discuss the importance of authentic storytelling in media, using recent casting choices in "Wicked" and Disney adaptations as a jumping-off point. The hosts explore why representation isn’t enough without real inclusion and the need for self-accommodation to destigmatize accessibility. Lily and Erin also reflect on highlights from the past year, sharing their "All I Want" asks for better support.

Connect with Lily Newton and Erin Hawley.

Transcript

Erin Hawley:

I have some background noise.

Lily Newton:

It's fine. I'm in my not normal spot. Hey, listeners. I think the I like the idea of the Just Between Us, episodes start a lot more chaotically.

Erin Hawley:

Yes. I like that.

Lily Newton:

This is us. You thought you knew authenticity. Man, my have a big window right here. So, this is Lily speaking. I'm a white woman with half blonde, half brown hair. And today, I'm sitting in a a very brightly lit window area because I needed to move spaces. And, oh, there's a mirror behind me, and I can see the back of my head, which I don't like because ...

Erin Hawley:

I don't even see that.

Lily Newton:

The back of my head is none of my business.

Erin Hawley:

This is Erin. I'm a white woman with red hair wearing a blue shirt sitting in my bedroom, which is dark and red, and I like it.

Lily Newton:

Erin was about to drop a hot take, so I just hit record.

Erin Hawley:

So I was talking to my partner, my bird, yesterday, and we're talking about how well, I was talking about how I don't like it when we praise movie makers just for including the actual disabled person. Mhmm. And I'm like, I don't wanna give pats on the back for doing the most basic inclusion.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. I no surprise here. We're part of what we're talking about is Wicked, the Wicked, which I I wanna talk more about. We can talk about Wicked a lot here. I'm a theater kid. So no. Yeah. I was actually thinking this exact same thing with all of the Wicked stuff coming out because I'm so excited they cast Marissa Bodie, but but I don't think it's an amazing thing that John M.

Lily Newton:

Chu did. I think it's a bad thing that everyone else who has ever directed Wicked did to not cast. I mean, there's so much ableism in that story.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah. And and, like, that's what I was seeing was a lot of, oh, thank you so much for including somebody. And I'm like, okay. But do they change the entire plot? Because it's on the back of evilism.

Lily Newton:

And, like, I think that they I think that they will, which is exciting. But at the same time, I completely understand what you're saying of the, like I don't need to praise someone for that. Like, it's not praiseworthy to do a very basic thing. I feel very similar of, like, when what is Quinni's Chloe Hayden, when she was cast as Quinni on Heartbreak High. It was very similar of that, like, they actually cast an autistic girl to play an autistic girl. It's so amazing. And it was like Mhmm. That's her whole story.

Lily Newton:

Like, you wouldn't have been able to write the story without Chloe informing it. It's not actually amazing. It's just your job.

Erin Hawley:

I also like we're also talking about this is such a hot cake. You might get me in trouble with, I don't know, people. But, like, I I'm tired of seeing disabled actors playing disabled people, obviously, because they're disabled. And, like, that is your story. That is the plot. And there's a movie that came out. I don't remember the name of it. And I see trailers for it, and I know, like, it's important to see disability on screen.

Erin Hawley:

But, like, the whole plot just seemed to be about her having a disability. That was like it just bothers me that, like, we can't have disabled people just exist. In a film, it's like a plot point.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. Did you ever watch go ahead.

Erin Hawley:

No. The the part that you told me about looking where they, like, mentioned like, she's like, oh, don't count. Don't help me too much or whatever.

Lily Newton:

Yeah.

Erin Hawley:

Can you explain that? I'm not explaining it.

Lily Newton:

So the I I said that in it it is nice to see, that there's some, like, mention of ableism, I suppose, in Wicked in that Nessa Rose's character, when she gets to Shiz, is just immediately infantilized by everyone, and they're, like, helping her and touching her wheelchair without her consent. And it is an a moment there where when I was watching it, I was like, oh, this is nice that it's, like, the disabled perspective being shared that it's annoying when people are overwhelming like that. But that was kind of it.

Erin Hawley:

But, like, is that like, when she was introduced, I haven't seen it yet. I've just seen the play on Broadway. I saw it one and a half times because my friend wanted to see it again, and we forgot that it that day, it started an hour earlier. But we always don't answer the show, but it's fine. Yeah. And so in the movie, we're introduced to her. But is that, like, one of the first things that happens to her in the movie?

Lily Newton:

You meet her as a child.

Erin Hawley:

Okay.

Lily Newton:

And then, I mean, her major plot point is to show how much better she's treated by their father than Elphaba is.

Erin Hawley:

Uh-huh.

Lily Newton:

So we get that happening a little bit before, but even he is a little bit overbearing towards that she needs help.

Erin Hawley:

Mhmm. Yeah. I just don't like it when it's like, alright. Here's the disabled character. Let's chat about disability. It lets immediately show ableism. And it's like Yeah.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. It it it it feels very similar to, like, every marginalized group when it's like a story about a trans character and all the transphobia they faced or a story about nonwhite character and all the racism they it's like those stories are important, of course. Yeah. But And this is true. At some point, could we just have someone who's, like, a pastry chef, and all of their problems are related to their pastries?

Erin Hawley:

And I don't like to note myself. I'm writing a romance novel. Mhmm. And the main character is somebody who has high support needs. And I'm making the book not be about ableism, but it will include ableism because that's the reality of it.

Lily Newton:

Right.

Erin Hawley:

But it's not about that. And, like, the conflict in the story will not be about disability. Ugh. I

Lily Newton:

can't wait to read it, Erin. I'm so excited.

Erin Hawley:

To write it. Just I'm still working on it, but I don't get it one day. That's why I wanna I'm writing it because I love writing, and also well, I don't love writing. I write because I'm good at it, but I don't like it. I'm writing it because I like to write, kinda, and because I had never seen that story ever.

Lily Newton:

Right. Same. I can't wait to read that.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah. I'm I'm hyping myself up to write it.

Lily Newton:

Hyping you up too. It's it's, it's very necessary.

Erin Hawley:

Writing is hard.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. Writing is hard. It's the day before Thanksgiving that we're recording this.

Erin Hawley:

Mhmm. How do

Lily Newton:

you feel going into the holidays?

Erin Hawley:

Yeah. Sorry. I don't know. I don't love Thanksgiving. It's not my favorite holiday

Lily Newton:

Heard by

Erin Hawley:

any means. It's like a Christmas before Christmas. You know what I'm saying? It's like, at Christmas, I'm gonna see the same people or gonna have similar food. The others on Christmas is, like, pretty lights and presents. Thanksgiving is just like that. Like Turkey.

Lily Newton:

Well, brownie. Colonization. I'm a food driven animal, so I am excited about eating.

Erin Hawley:

I love all the side dishes, but not turkey. I hate turkey. Really? Tonight, my Thanksgiving plate is just, like, all the sides.

Lily Newton:

I love that. Did you know that's unrelated to anything I was saying? Just turkey related. Okay. So have you seen on, like, TikTok or anything, there's, like, the trend of the sleepy girl mocktail?

Erin Hawley:

No. I'm, like, trying to play not.

Lily Newton:

On the chronically online, so I'm filling you in, my millennial friend. There's the thing that's, like, sleepy girl mocktail, and it's, like, a tart cherry juice based mocktail. And I was obviously very skeptical of it, but did end up being influenced to try it. And it's been actually amazing. Like, if I drink a cup of tart cherry juice before bed, it works way better than, like, a melatonin for me. Yes. I know.

Erin Hawley:

What? Send me the link.

Lily Newton:

I will. That. I didn't know why, but it turns out that tart cherry juice has tryptophan in it. The same thing that turkey has in it that makes you sleepy, and that's why.

Erin Hawley:

The tryptophan in turkey that we eat is not nearly enough to get you sleepy. Yes. You have to eat

Lily Newton:

a lot of turkey.

Erin Hawley:

Turkeys by yourself.

Lily Newton:

Mean, how okay. Tryptophan. Now I'm googling it because I was told it and immediately listened. A thing about me is I believe things. It's not great. Okay. Tart Jerry's. Oh, only contain 9 milligrams of tryptophan.

Lily Newton:

What makes you sleep? Oh, apparently, it also is a natural source of melatonin.

Erin Hawley:

Oh, okay.

Lily Newton:

Okay. So it's that plus the tryptophan. See, I feel like I'm just sleepy after I eat turkey because I've eaten a lot of food.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah. I think that's it. We didn't say we're not giving medical advice.

Lily Newton:

We're not giving medical advice. We're absolutely not giving medical advice. This is about me being easily influenced more than anything else. Well, it's been a pretty great year of everything you know.

Erin Hawley:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Lily Newton:

Who's our first guest of this year? Was it was it Galen?

Erin Hawley:

I think so. Yeah.

Lily Newton:

I think so too. Great year. Great people.

Erin Hawley:

Great people. Amazing. Like, I feel like I've connected to so many different different as in, like, unique from each other.

Lily Newton:

Totally.

Erin Hawley:

It's amazing. I love this job.

Lily Newton:

Me too. I'm trying to think of some highlights from the season. Oh, I loved having Spencer West on.

Erin Hawley:

Yes.

Lily Newton:

He was awesome and just like a cool person to meet. We're actually working with him again in in our campaign that will be starting right when this episode is released.

Erin Hawley:

Yes. And Can I Actually, we have, yeah, we have

Lily Newton:

a few people that we've, had on the podcast that are gonna be a part of that campaign, which is a campaign based on Easterseals asking you to, go from passive to active allyship, meaning, like the best example I can think of, is the difference between seeing, like, a elevator or a lift that is out and going, dang? That sucks, versus calling whoever owns the building or sending an email to the company that it's a part of and saying, just so you know, this elevator is out. That's an accessibility issue. It's like that tiny little extra thing, or when you're working on digital content because we live in a digital content world, are you making sure it's accessible? Because like that so the campaign is called All I Want is You. And then we have some amazing influencers and Easterseals leaders who are sharing what is their all I want to ask of what they want people to do. And we have some amazing people who have been on the podcast who are gonna be a part of that campaign, including Spencer, and Jennifer Masumba who wrote our theme song and was one of our I think was our first guest. Right?

Erin Hawley:

Yes.

Lily Newton:

Our first ever guest and wrote our amazing theme song, which will never change because I'm obsessed with our theme song.

Erin Hawley:

I love it.

Lily Newton:

Like, 2 years

Erin Hawley:

what's the dream song?

Lily Newton:

Like, we're 2 years later, I think. And it's I I'm not tired of it. I listen to it all the time.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. Sabod Garrig from love on the spectrum. I was just saying that Sabod Garrig from love on the spectrum is also part of that campaign. Mhmm. And Madison Tevlin, whose episode just came out, if you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend. We had a blast recording with her.

Erin Hawley:

She's she's she's so lovely.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. She's awesome. I I wish I could, like, hang out with her on a reg all of our guests, honestly.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah.

Lily Newton:

I wish we could have, like, a everything you know gala and Yeah. Together. And

Erin Hawley:

I know.

Lily Newton:

That'd be so fun.

Erin Hawley:

That'd be so much fun. Uh-huh. We should talk to Kendra about it. Kendra has a podcast as well. Kendra is the CEO of Easterseals, and she has her own podcast called

Lily Newton:

Onboard with Transparent Leadership. It's a great podcast. I've actually learned a lot from it, and Kendra is really awesome and supportive, of this podcast, of course, and of the work we do. Man, you don't it's another, we need accessible air travel moment because to have that gala, we would need accessible air travel for everyone to come.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah. Absolutely. And, what would be your all I want?

Lily Newton:

My all I want is all I want is you, being the general public, to notice when you are pushing through discomfort or pain, and take at least a second to consider if there are accommodations you can make for yourself to stop or lessen that discomfort, because I think a big part of destigmatizing accessibility accommodations is for everyone to realize that they help everyone. And if you constantly have knee pain, you don't just have to push through it. You can wear a brace or use a mobility aid, and I was really, you know, I was really moved by the episode we had with Chelsea Bear where she was talking about that and saying that, like, every one person that accommodates themself makes it easier for the next person to accommodate themself.

Erin Hawley:

Absolutely.

Lily Newton:

So that's my my simplified version after verbally processing all of that is all I want is you to make accommodations for yourself.

Erin Hawley:

Yes. Ask

Lily Newton:

me. All I want is you ask?

Erin Hawley:

To move beyond praise into, I don't know. Do you know what I'm trying to say? That was the movie the movie thing where where phrasing basic

Lily Newton:

Yeah. I think maybe to move beyond praising representation.

Erin Hawley:

Yes.

Lily Newton:

And what's the next step?

Erin Hawley:

Real stories that are in-depth and have nuance to it.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. I think a good one of that is, like, all I want is you to replace representation with authenticity.

Erin Hawley:

Yes. Intro: Because I

Lily Newton:

think that word representation Mhmm. Start started to become a buzzword, and that kind of like, yep. We've checked the box.

Erin Hawley:

Absolutely.

Lily Newton:

But it's like, are those people that are representing a group telling an authentic story of humanity, not just of that group.

Erin Hawley:

Yes. Absolutely. Like, we're all disabled, not all of us, like, here in this podcast. And, like, I'm just I wanna see real stories. That's it. That's the key.

Lily Newton:

Another one is all I want is you to disclose your disability at work if it's safe to do so.

Erin Hawley:

Mhmm.

Lily Newton:

Because I think that goes along with the accommodating yourself. Self advocacy is really hard, but it's so powerful. Yeah. And it's not even just self advocacy. It really is when you advocate for yourself, you're advocating for everyone else who has the same needs as you. And we're not all that unique. TBH.

Erin Hawley:

We kinda like like, biologically, we're all unique Yeah. But, like, DNA. And, but we all had similar human experiences and needs. And, yeah.

Lily Newton:

Yeah. That was an eye opening. The first time I had someone explain to me why they don't prefer the term special needs was definitely, like, a big moment in my unlearning ableism journey, which I'm still on and is a lifelong journey. But someone said, like, what is special about needs that everyone has? And I was kind of like, what do you mean by that? And they were like, the the needs are to eat, to drink water, to go to the bathroom, to be loved, to love, to feel needed. And I was like, oh, you're so right. The needs are not the special part. The needs are actually the humanity of it. Like, that's what we all have now.

Lily Newton:

There might be things needed to achieve those needs that are different than every day, like, than what you're used to. But I think that is a really that was just poignant for me when that was said. I was like, wow. You're so right. The needs the the humanness of us all is is all the same.

Erin Hawley:

Right. We all have the same needs. Just how to get to them looking different for different people, and that's fine. That's actually a good thing.

Lily Newton:

It's a great thing.

Erin Hawley:

Because diversity is amazing.

Lily Newton:

And creates innovation.

Erin Hawley:

Mhmm.

Lily Newton:

And yeah.

Erin Hawley:

What a

Lily Newton:

great year we've had.

Erin Hawley:

Totally. Amazing year.

Lily Newton:

This will be our last just between us episode of the year, but we're gonna try to do more in 2025 because I I think our podcast episodes are obviously incredible advocacy. And then there's something nice, though, of you guys you guys being our listeners, just getting to hear of y'all being our listeners, of just getting to hear, like, that Aaron and I are just friends who have normal conversation. Well, normal's a normal's a a fake word, but cool. Well, we did it. We made it through the year. We've got one more campaign to launch. Make sure you're following at eastersealshq on all social media so you can get to see the cool stuff we're making, and you can comment your all I want ask for the year. We've got maybe one more episode coming out this year after this.

Lily Newton:

Actually, maybe 2. And then we'll be back for more in 2025. We're just gonna keep the ball rolling and keep making content. So like and share this with your friends. Thanks for supporting us. Our listeners who have been here from the beginning or are brand new, we love you and are happy to have you here. I think that's everything. We've been we recorded for 25 minutes is what we said we'd do.

Erin Hawley:

I know.

Lily Newton:

Erin, I love you.

Erin Hawley:

I love you too.

Lily Newton:

Have a wonderful little Thanksgiving break. Eat all the side dishes your heart

Erin Hawley:

desires. Thank you.

Lily Newton:

And I'll see you back next week. Oh, I will. And it'll make me sleepy. Alrighty. I'm gonna hit stop. Tune in next time for another episode of Everything You Know About Disability is Wrong, and tune in next year for another super authentic, extraordinarily well scripted, episode of Just Between Us.

Erin Hawley:

If you like what you heard, go ahead and subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts.

Lily Newton:

Thank you to our listeners, and as always, thank you to Easterseals for giving us the space and resources to share such authentic conversations from within the disability community to our listeners.

Erin Hawley:

And I'll see you next time for another episode of everything you know about disability is wrong. Intro: Everything you know about disability is wrong.

Lily Newton (commercial segment):

This is a podcast brought to you by Easterseals.

Erin Hawley(commercial segment):

You know, we actually work for Easterseals, but maybe our listeners don't know what we do.

Lily Newton(commercial segment):

That's true. Easterseals is leading the way to full access, equity, and inclusion for disabled people and their families.

Erin Hawley(commercial segment):

And did you know we've been doing this for more than a century?

Lily Newton(commercial segment):

This includes helping disabled people find meaningful employment and addressing health care needs for all ages.

Erin Hawley(commercial segment):

We're proud to serve communities across the country and ready for the next 100 years. For more, check out easterseals.com.