Episode 15: Barbara Merrill: A Seat at the Table for DEIA Work

On Board with Transparent Leadership Podcast

August 29, 2024

Episode 15 Show Notes

"As we've been advancing our diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility work, transparency is an incredibly important aspect of that."

In this episode of "On Board," host Kendra Davenport, and guest Barbara Merrill dive into the role of transparency in nonprofit leadership. Barbara, CEO and President of ANCOR reflects on her journey from attorney and legislator to a leading advocate in the disability services sector.

Barbara shares her insights on transparent leadership practices, the importance of diversity, and the lessons she's gained from both international engagements and personal experiences. This conversation offers valuable perspectives on effective leadership and advocacy in nonprofits and organizational growth.

Links:

• Learn more about Barbara Merrill and ANCOR.
• Connect with Kendra Davenport.

Transcript

Barbara Merrill:

I just love that you're doing a series of podcast on transparent transparent leadership because it's, transparency is something that we've been really, increasingly intentional about at ANCOR, as we've been advancing our diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility work. Transparency is an incredibly important aspect of that. But let me kind of go back 12 years ago when I was first hired at ANCOR to really more directly answer your question. ANCOR had been had been doing really great work for a long time. You know, we celebrate our 54th anniversary this year. ANCOR has really been at the table for, every single important piece of legislation or regulation, impacting and improving the lives of people with disabilities, you know, from section 504, the IDEA, the ADA, and and and all of the really critically important regulations.

Kendra Davenport:

Welcome to onboard with transparent leadership in Easter Chills podcast. I am Kendra Davenport, president and CEO of Easterseals, and I am joined today by Barbara Merrill. Barbara is the CEO of Ancor. ANCOR is a group that represents organizations, community based providers of services, for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. And Easterseals is one such organization. Barbara has had a long tenure at ANCOR, and we'll get into that in a minute. But I love what led you first in your career before you came to ANCOR. Barbara was a practicing attorney, then she was a legislator and she even ran for governor for the great state of Maine before moving to the DMV, as we call it to, work for ANCOR and worked there from 2012, right? Am I right? You started there in 2012, Barbara, and eventually took over as CEO. So welcome. Great to have you here. And you are in Maine with a terrific backdrop and background. So super to see you. Great to have you on the podcast. Thank you.

I've been eager to speak with you. And before we joined this podcast and going over what we were gonna talk about with Barbara, I told her we love to hear from from, you know, I'll be honest, female leaders. I like talking with men too, but I love speaking with other female leaders because I think leadership for women is, is a very different thing. And one of the things I love to dive right into is transparency. And I think, I honestly think men, men are not quite as good at that as women are. Can you talk a little bit about your style of leadership, Barbara? And I know that under your leadership, for example, the membership of ANCOR has quadrupled. So you have done an awful lot that requires transparency to get that kind of buy in and and achieve that kind of growth. Can you can you give us a little insight into into how you lead and how transparency plays a part in it?

Barbara Merrill:

I'd love to. And, and and and thank you for inviting me. I've been really looking forward to this. You know, what you didn't share, about my background is is one of the more fun gigs I've had in my life, and I got it after I lost the gubernatorial race. You know? So the little you know, know, I think I think this is actually maybe verbatim on my on my bio on the website, but, but, you know, the loser's prize. Right? The consolation prize, you know, for failed candidates for public office is, you know, often some sort of, some sort of, gig, some kind of show. And so for, I don't know, maybe like a year and a half, or I don't quite remember how long, I was a a talk radio host on this show called Inside Maine. And it was, you know, it was I I ran for governor as an independent.

The state of Maine has actually elected several independent governors. And I and I really, really was, you know, inspired, motivated, to, you know, try to become the 3rd. Obviously, I didn't succeed. But, but then I was, offered this position of being a talk talk show host on this radio show that was kinda like a point counterpoint. You know, there was a Republican host, and then I was asked, you know, to come on to be, like, the liberal host, which was really kind of the I I I greatly enjoyed. I had an opportunity to interview Barack Obama when he was running for president. I actually I actually snagged a little exclusive interview with him, so that was hugely exciting. But I was on, you know, I was on AM radio, which meant, like, in the middle of the interview, I had to stop and say, Anne, you were listening to Tubbock at GAN radio.

You know, I had to, like, do this a little bit in the middle of interviewing Barack Obama. But, but what was what was a little frustrating about that experience and why I didn't continue doing it is because a point counterpoint doesn't leave you the opportunity to be where I, tend to be the more more comfortable in in seeing, you know, value in different perspectives. Right? You know, so, you know, so, you know, as count part of you know, count you know, point point counterpoint. Right? This is the republican view. This is the democrat view. Now wait a minute. There are aspects of both views, that that obviously when our when our country is working together a whole lot better than we currently are, can really advance us. And, and maybe I just kinda sort of share that story, to lead into answering your question, Kendra.

I just love that you're doing a you're doing a series of podcasts on transparent leadership because it's, transparency is something that we've been really, increasingly intentional about at ANCOR, as we've been advancing our diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility work. Transparency is an incredibly important aspect of that. But let me kinda go back 12 years ago when I was first hired at ANCOR to really more directly answer your question. When I first got to ANCOR, I was hired as the vice president of government relations. And, ANCOR had been had been doing really great work for a long time. You know, we celebrate our 54th anniversary this year. ANCOR has really been at the table for, every single important piece of legislation or regulation, impacting and improving the lives of people with disabilities. You know, from section 504, the IDEA, the ADA and, and, and all of the really critically important regulations.

And, you know, and obviously lobbying, advocating with, with before Congress, before the administration, advocating, getting involved from time to time in submitting friend of the court briefs with, the Supreme Court on any critically important legislation. But, you know, Kendra, as you know, cause I, you know, you have some pretty deep experience as well. There are different kind of schools of thought in how you really rep best represent, folks. And and some, you know, just lifelong, incredibly effective advocates, you know, are exceedingly cautious with how much they share with their clients or their members. And you do need to be very, very careful because successful advocacy is about building relationships. It's about trust. So a lot of times, you know, you're told something from a staffer that if you turned around and shared it and it became public, you you break that trust. Right? So when I got to Ancor, you know, I I came in after just, you know, years years of just a tremendous team.

But my immediate predecessor was much more cautious about what was shared with mem not just with membership, but with with with really sort of key leaders. And and that wasn't my style. You know? My style is my style is obviously not to break trust. Right? Because trust is so important. But if you don't tell your members, you know, if you don't tell the people who have who have trusted you, you know, what you're doing, You know, they might assume that you don't do you're not doing anything. Right? So my mantra you know, I'm an attorney by training, and I practice law for a number of years before I moved into, you know, the world of advocacy and and legislative representation. My mantra has been, if you don't tell people what you're doing, you're you're effectively, you know, just kinda communicating that you're not doing anything. So I've really so right from the beginning, it was really important for me to kinda walk and learn how to navigate and walk that line of really informing the members.

And the work that we do at ANCOR, it's just always been challenging. I'll you know, I I I know this is a little might sound trite, you know, as a as a description because it's been used so much. But ANCOR really truly is a big tent organization. And and when I say that, I mean, you know, we represent a whole lot of providers, of you know, from really, really, really small providers to very large providers to providers that work in just one community to providers who work across, you know, work across their entire state, who work across many states. We even represent providers that work internationally as well as in, in our country. But, we also represent many providers who, are extremely progressive in that they tran they transitioned to, supporting people with intellectual and developmental disabilities in community settings years years ago. You know, community settings without walls, you know, community programs, you know, that that that where people that don't go to a center for the community program. But they are supported in the community throughout the day.

I mean, they might check-in, you know, at a sort of a hub, you know, to to a number of our members who continue, to operate, you know, the more traditional programs, that are more congregate in nature or actually very congregate in nature. But the majority of our members are somewhere in between, you know, those two ends of the spectrum. And we've always considered it our job. I consider it our job at ANCOR at the board of directors. Our board has always considered it, our strategic mission to support our members, and, you know, to have the resources that they need to support people the most, you know, the best in community. Right? You know, so the majority of folks are, you know, are are are moving, right, towards, supporting people in community to the very best of of of everyone's abilities. Right?

Kendra Davenport:

Well, I love you gave us, like, a macro version of transparency, and you kinda took us through an awful lot there. So thank you. Let's go a little deeper down and talk about transparency just in managing your team. First of all, can you share with us how large your team is? How many direct reports, for example, do you have, and how talk about because I love the way you frame that up and how you you really have to on the side of transparency without divulging any, you know, any confidences or breaking trust to to be in line with what your constituents and what your clients want you to be doing. But talk can you talk a little bit more at the micro level internally, how you manage your staff, how large is your staff, and the role transparency, and and even more than transparency, I think just candor plays in your leadership style.

Barbara Merrill:

Sure. I'd love to. So, I I never played poker because I just would have lost. You know? I mean, I'm not even Kate I'm not in I'm really...

Kendra Davenport:

You don't even try? Is that what you're saying, Barbara?

Barbara Merrill:

I'm not good at it. I, you know, I just dress. So I sort of wear everything, you know, on my sleeve. You know, what you see is really generally what you get with me. You know? So so my style of, I don't know, authentic leadership, transparent leadership, you know, suits me because it it it is who I am. Our staff is relatively small for the amount of work that I think that we we get done. We have a staff of only 17 people. We also do use, you know, I have 4 or 5 external consultants.

But let but let me give you some real concrete examples. You know, in our diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility work, we have committed to transparent, DEIA informed hiring practices. And so what does that mean? When we, advertise for a position, we are very transparent about what the what the salary range is. We didn't used to do that. That's something we've only started doing it in the last, 3, 4 years. That, you know, that was something that actually was a little hard for me to do because, you know, I had this view that if you don't publish if you publish the salary, it might be limiting. There might be folks who who need a a higher salary, who won't apply, and then you don't even find out about them. And it doesn't give you that opportunity to per perhaps recalibrate what you're doing.

But I think clearly the upside of being really transparent of what's the salary range is is hugely appreciated by job seekers and frankly, expected these days, by, you know, younger generations. It certainly wasn't the case when I came into the job market. I'm gonna be 67 this year, by the way. That's another aspect of my transparent leadership. I have no interest in hiding my age.

I don't think women should ever hide their ages because in hiding our ages, we are perpetuating systemic ageism.

Kendra Davenport:

Uh-uh. I completely agree. I couldn't agree more.

Barbara Merrill:

And sexism. Right? Because you take you take women and you take age and, woah. Yeah. You know?

Kendra Davenport:

I don't know if you've seen it. Melinda French Gates has a new interview kind of online. I don't even know what you'd call it. It's not a podcast. It's not a TV show. It's sort of like a a webinar, like a in person webinar, and she talks about this very subject with, Michelle Obama, you know, ageism.

Barbara Merrill:

I have not seen that.

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, it's good. I'll send it to you when we finish this, but, no. Keep going because I love this, and I think you're absolutely right. I think we shy away from sharing our age. I think ageism is rampant, but I think it's worse for women. So I love that, and I love your transparency. Keep going. I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Barbara Merrill:

Yeah. No. I'm happy to. Other aspects of of of of our new hiring process is that we make it just really clear to applicants what the process is gonna be. You know, I mean, how many times have, you know, have people apply for jobs? You apply for jobs, suddenly there's like this black hole and you just kinda have no idea.

And then maybe you get that phone call or maybe you get an email saying, oh, you know, we wanna interview. But, you know, really, really frequently, it's just a black hole for people. So, you know, what we are doing with with with this hiring process is, we're sharing people what it what it is. We tell them out front, that, when you apply for a job with us, we your the the first vetting of the, resumes of the applications, you know, goes through, you know, a very specific process where people's names are redacted. You know, so we, you know, we we seek to redact information, the kind of information that could create an implicit bias.

Kendra Davenport:

Yes. Exactly right. And then it's, you know, and and we'd go once we go through that, you know, then we select, you know, who is going to advance to a skills test. And then based on the results of the skills test, and only at that point do I find out if I'm interviewing you or if I'm interviewing someone who lives next door to me. Right. And so, you know, that's, that's been a very transparent and really, fascinating, and rewarding process to go through. You know, it hasn't been without some kinks. But that's been a real important part.

Barbara Merrill:

Let me give you another example. Last last week, we had an all staff retreat. You know, more than half of our staff works remotely. So these staff retreats are critically important for team building. And we realized, you know, we realized, like, the day before the staff retreat that we needed to add another agenda to the staff retreat. And it was really specifically all about transparency because we have committed to transparency. Our board of directors, you know, has now finalized our next strategic plan. And as part of that strategic plan, we've we're articulating our values, and transparency is one of those values.

So it's like, okay. And, you know, I realized that there are there were a few things that were that had been going on at ANCOR and we hadn't meant to keep it a secret from anyone. Like for example, on Monday morning, I have a 15 minute call with my with my with my top management team. Right? I mean, top management. You know, with, like, 5 people. And, and it just never shared with the full staff who made the cut, you know, who, you know, who gets to be part of this, and what the heck we talk about. Right? I you know, I that hadn't dawned on me, and I realized, you know, in a meeting that, you know, that there had been questions about that. And, you know, the last thing, you know, the I mean, the whole point or not the whole point, but an an incredibly important outcome of an incredibly important outcome of transparent leader of transparent leadership is that people don't assume.

You know, because if you just leave people to assume, a lot of times they're gonna come to the wrong assumption, where just a little bit of information, you know, really sorts stuff out.

Kendra Davenport:

Do you feel, though I feel often, that the train is moving so fast that it's unintentional that you're not sharing what you're doing or the process or how you're moving forward with staff. You're not intentionally keeping it from them, but you're not making an intentional commitment to share the process and the steps. And and I think, honestly, if I'm gonna be a little ageist here, I think that is new. That is new. That that desire to see how the sausage is made by staff to be involved in every process, every bit of the decision making process, something that has evolved. And I don't think it's unhealthy, but I think it's very different than the nonprofit world I matured in. So 20 years ago, I don't think I expected to know what my CEO was doing on a given day or how they'd arrived at that decision. But I I find it's tricky.

It's a tricky balance to go back to something you said at the very top of our discussion, which was you don't wanna break trust. You wanna maintain confidences in the face of trying to be as transparent as possible. And yet I find often that the desire to have information, just information for the sake of having it, is very strong among our staff, our team. And yet while there might not be a reason why we shouldn't share it, it's not top of mind all the time that we have to make time and room to share it. Is that something you you experience or I were you pretty good at these these off sites and retreats that you do in doing that?

Barbara Merrill:

Kendra, just kinda everything you said, underline it, put it italicize it, put it bold, or like, yes. Things really have evolved. Expectations are much greater. And so that does that make it challenge more challenging for those of us who came into the workforce at a time when the climate was different, and we didn't expect to be told anything. And we were just grateful for what we got. Right?

Kendra Davenport:

Absolutely. Right. Look at the job. Just shut down.

Barbara Merrill:

Well, you know, a strategy that I, is something I do. And I started doing it. I started doing it. Oh my heavens. I might have started doing I've been CEO of Anchor for, it'll be 8 it'll be 10 years in November. And I started doing this probably about nine and a half years ago. And and I send an email to my board of directors every single Friday telling them I know you don't wanna hear you might not wanna hear this.

Kendra Davenport:

No. I do.

Barbara Merrill:

You open the door. But I send an email to my board of directors every single Friday telling them what's coming up, and what's happened. And, you know, the email is you know, you know, it it it it it takes my board members depending on how fast they read. It might take them 5 minutes to read it. You know, it's not a super you know, it's you know, I I've never adopted sort of the, you know, sort of best, you know, the practices of some of these supersonic CEOs of Fortune 500 Companies who might only communicate in 5 bullets. Right? I mean, I've got a little bit more. There are quite a few more bullets.

That's not it. But, I started I started doing it because my our oldest daughter, she, she's my stepdaughter, actually. So and she's pretty fabulous, and I can't take credit for her because I didn't raise her. But she's closer in age to me. And, I mean, closer in age to me than the chill the the the the younger children that we have. And she got hired as the CEO of a nonprofit here in Maine, the same year that I got hired as the CEO of ANCOR. So it's been really interesting. And and and Robin is her name.

Robin told me that she'd started sending these emails to her board of directors every Friday. We're doing dishes, like, after a family meal. And I'm like, wow, Robin. I'm impressed. No. I I am not doing that. Right? Like, I am not doing that. No.

She planted the seed. And I started thinking about it, you know, and probably within a month, I started doing it. And I you know, we haven't missed we haven't missed I have missed a week since. If I'm on vacation, my COO sends the report. I I mean, I think the only like, maybe maybe

Kendra Davenport:

What's their feedback then, Barbara?

Barbara Merrill:

What's their feedback then? They love it. They love it. They love it. They love it. But but here's the additional transparency thing that I do, and this is really a more direct response to your question. I didn't start doing this immediately, but somewhere along the line, I don't know when, might have only been 4 years ago, I started forwarding it to all staff. All staff. You know? And, you know, you know, have have there been weeks when I've needed to edit out, something here or there that that truly was confidential and only for the board? Yes.

Kendra Davenport:

But that's super rare. Right? Because I think we all know the old Well, I love that because everybody's getting the same information relatively. Everybody's getting the same information.

Barbara Merrill:

So, you know, on our staff retreat last week, one of our staff members, you know, said and he's laughing. You know? And he's like, oh, you know, I don't always read it, Barbara. And I'm like, that's okay. If I were you, and particularly if it come if it you know, sometimes it doesn't come until Friday afternoon.

Kendra Davenport:

Depending on your day, I'm sure.

Barbara Merrill:

Yeah. If I were staff, I'm not sure I'd read it every day, every week either, but but it but it it it makes sure everybody's in the loop. And what it really does is is every member of staff knows what every other team is doing. And, you know, and and what what the wins are, you know, what's kinda, you know, what's what some of the challenging things are. And I and I just, I think it's been really, really helpful. But has it further increased expectations?

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, for sure. For sure. I think you give a little year the expectation is you're gonna continue to give more, but I love that idea. I can't say I'm gonna do it. I'm sort of where you are when Robin told you she was doing it. Like, no. I'm not gonna do that, but you have planted the seeds. So thank you.

Thank you for that. You, you know, I love how dynamic your career has been, a practicing attorney turned legislator run for governor, which I just think is amazing. I think that's an amazing thing, but then to move to uproot and to leave and go down, you know, way down the coast to DC, Maryland, Virginia, as we call it here.

You know, I'm in Virginia, the DMV. Just fascinating. And you've been with ANCOR more than 10 years. You've been there 12 years. What keeps you going? What keeps you personally going and driven? You know, can you share that? And and part 2 to that question is, what's next? What haven't you done that you'd like to do?

Barbara Merrill:

Okay. Let me start with the first one. The the second one I could interpret it, are you asking me professionally for anger? Are you asking me personally for anger?

Kendra Davenport:

No. I'm asking you answer however you want. I'm not asking if you're leaving or looking for a job. I'm asking you, you've done some incredible things professionally. I'm sure you have done similar things personally. What's something you haven't done that's on the docket or that you you look to be doing? And how do you keep going? What keeps you motivated? Because yours is a demanding job.

Barbara Merrill:

So I I love my job. You know, I just really think I've got the best job in the world. It didn't feel that way during COVID. Right? I mean, I don't know if anybody loved their job during COVID.

Kendra Davenport:

No. Neither do I.

Barbara Merrill:

Well, well, actually actually people who who really, you know, you know, prefer to not work around a whole lot of other people. They were they were happier during COVID, but obviously COVID was a big really big fat scary thing for the entire world. Right? Because, you know, sort of the world as we knew it suddenly looked very, very different. But I you know, what I what I love the most about what I love the most about what I find most the most challenging about my work and our work, because it's a true hour. And it goes back to what I was talking about earlier. You know, when you represent a whole lot of perspectives, a whole lot of whole lot of different people, different parts of the country, different approaches to delivering services, you know, in order to do it successfully, it's about collaboration. Right? You know, it's it's it's about, engaging. It's about active listening, and it's about really realizing that you don't that that if you walk into a meeting, if you walk into, you know, if you walk into a a situation, if you walk into a challenge, you know, with with with, you know, thinking you know exactly what the answer is, you're just gonna have it handed to you.

Right? You know, what I have real and and this this keeps me this is a part that really keeps me going. You know, I I used to think when I was kind of young and brash, I used to think that, you know, that work by committee, wasn't the best kind of work that could be done.

Kendra Davenport:

Why not?

Barbara Merrill:

Right? Well, because because when you engage a whole lot of people, you know, I, you know, I thought, you know...

Kendra Davenport:

You would take time.

Barbara Merrill:

You would take a lot of time and you might, you know, in in in the through the process of trying to please a whole lot of people, you know, you you wouldn't be able to emerge with something kind of bold, or, you know, risk taken.

Kendra Davenport:

It would be watered down because you'd have to consider too many opinion.

Barbara Merrill:

Exactly. I've learned through my work at ANCOR that actually the reverse is true. That when we pull together people and we respect, you know, the member engagement process, our work has always improved. And, boy, that I mean, that that's the thing that has kinda surprised me the most about what I've learned through the course of my career because I didn't start thinking that. You know, so, I mean, so really what that is is it's about humility. Right? But, you know, how do you do that? You know, when you sit in your kind of ivory tower of Washington DC, it's pretty easy to be disengaged from folks. And we didn't used to have, you know, the virtual meeting opportunities that we used to have. Right? You know, the weight that we have now.

Getting on the road and talking to people and really understanding the challenges they're going through, you know, it's one thing to think, oh, you know, this policy, this thing. Right? I don't understand why people aren't getting it. Right? I don't understand why people aren't getting there faster. You know, you get out there in the road and you see, you know, how providers are, you know, kind of working to implement, policy, you know, translate policy to practice. It's eye opening. Right? It's completely eye opening. And then it's just so incredibly rewarding. Right? I mean, what I what I really need is to get out there, engage with people, and really, you know, firsthand meet the people that our members are supporting because at the end of the day, we are all here for one thing.

We are here to support people, you know, to live their best lives. Right? You know, our members are the conduit for it. Right? You know, you know, the you know, we're all about you know, we are a national provider association. You know, we are all about educating, you know, the public policy makers, everyone that, you know, that that often, not always, but often, you know, when you see someone with a disability successful in the community, there's very often 2, 3, maybe 5 people, all, you know, in the shadows who have helped to support that person's success and independence in the community. You know, so that part, I just love that. Right? I love that. I love that. Okay.

What's that? You know? You know?

Kendra Davenport:

What's next? Yeah. I'm not letting you off the hook. What's next? What is something you haven't done? Would you consider, for example, running for office again?

Barbara Merrill:

Oh, not in this lifetime. I dearly hope I dearly hope that there is such thing as reincarnation. You know, perhaps I come back, you know, perhaps I, you know, come back as an ant, and I don't know if they there are democratic processes for who gets to become the queen queen ant or something. But but, no, that's that's not that's not in my future. I did it. I loved it. I really, loved it. You know, what have I what am I not doing right now that I'd like to do a whole lot more of? I got a garden out there, and I have great big aspirations for that.

But, actually, really seriously, what we are doing now at Ancor, and we're doing it, at very baby steps. But I'm really, so excited about where we're going is we're starting to engage internationally. And this international engagement, you know, is, is so eyeopening. It's so affirming and it's so inspiring. You know, in the fall in October, I'm going to be traveling to speak, in Athens, along with Donna Martin, who is, you know, my colleague, my buddy, at ANCOR, our director. She's our, vice president for, state partnerships and innovation. And we are gonna be addressing the European Association for, service providers for people with disabilities, talking about, the USA's, you know, our journey as a country from, facility based employment, you know, sheltered work to integrate competitive integrated employment, and and and as we know, we're we're still very much on that journey, and it's been a rocky journey. You know, it's it's moved.

It's yeah. To say the least. And so to have that opportunity to share our journey and to listen to the journey of the different European countries.

Kendra Davenport:

Fascinating.

Barbara Merrill:

Absolutely fascinating.

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah. Yeah. Good for you. That sounds exciting. You are, very public person. You know, you've said when we first started this conversation. I think you could read that or I could say that verbatim from my bio. You can Google you.

Tell us something that we can't find out about you online. What's something about Barbara Merrill that you would have to share?

Barbara Merrill:

It's almost like one of those, those icebreakers that people would sweat. Oh, come on. It could be could be anything. I love a lot. I always love these questions, but I just know, some people are filled with dread when it comes to it. So I'm very proud, of something today that when I was a young when I was a high school student, I was mortified by. So when I went to high school, we didn't have advanced placement classes. Right? I mean, they just didn't they you know, I was college tracked. But, by the time we get to senior year, the senior gut course was a thing. Right? You know, that, you know, that we had, you know, enough credits to graduate, you know, but we still need to sort of fill up and then take some more classes.

They were called the gut courses. So I took a home economics class, and and and and we we cooked and, gosh, I, you know, learned how to run a sewing machine. We made a we made a meal. We got to invite

Kendra Davenport:

The important stuff, Barbara.

Barbara Merrill:

Oh my gosh. Has that stuff come in handy my entire life? But but some of us were, we kind of thought we we we were we were not the kids in the class that the tea that that the teacher thought respected her. Right? I mean, we were like, we we we weren't very respectful to her. Let's just put it that way. I mean, we or we weren't well, we weren't we weren't we weren't as respectful of of home economics. Right? Because we were we were we were thinking we were gonna be this. We're gonna do this. And she but she told all of us that we had to show up at a Saturday morning to take the Betty Crocker homemaker of the year, exam.

And, you know, and the and, you know, there there'd be one winner of the state of Maine and, you know, they they they compete for the National Homemaker, and there'd be scholarship money. You know? This would be a good thing. And I told her that I wasn't gonna get up on a Saturday morning and go, and I just refused. And she went to the principal, and the principal told me I didn't have a choice. That if I wanted to graduate, I had to get up on Saturday morning and go take this test. And so I got up and I took it, and I'm really good at multiple choice. Probably the only reason why I passed the law...

Kendra Davenport:

You're really good at being self deprecating too, so keep going.

Barbara Merrill:

I ended up winning from....I knew you were gonna say that.

Kendra Davenport:

This is a great story. No.

Barbara Merrill:

I didn't win for the state of Maine, but I won from our class. And and and the teacher put it in the the the newspaper. And and as and I still have the clipping, you know, Barbara Butler, you know, Betty Crocker maker of the year award recipient. And I was mortified. I wish I was mortified because that wasn't like the image. You know? I wanted to be, you know, someone who, you know, I wanted to be someone who, you know, really, you know, like, may maybe, like, a little bit more like Annie Hall. Right?

Kendra Davenport:

We wanted to be more of a woman of the world. I get it. But I love it, and I love that you're proud of that now.

Barbara Merrill:

I buried it. I buried it, you know, for years. But then, you know, then I started, like, you know, I I I grew up. Right? You know, because when you're a teenager, you haven't exactly grown up. Right? And you don't, you know, you know, just things that you think, you know, you know, you get you get, you know, you get, you know, people put you in your place, which is which is such an an essential part of growing up. Right? You know, if you're kinda cocky or something like that, somebody just, you know, like running for office and losing. That's, you know, that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

It it's a leveler or, you know, or or whatever, you know, applying for a job and not getting not getting that job. Right?

Kendra Davenport:

That's a great I think that might be one of the best stories we've had in response to that question, Barbara. I love that.

Barbara Merrill:

Well, you know, kind of fast forward to, fast forward to a few years ago, when I saw that Elizabeth Warren, when she was running for president of the United States shared that winning Betty Crocker homemaker of that she won Betty Crocker. Now Elizabeth Warren won it for the state of Massachusetts. I Oh. I only won it for the city of Waterville, Maine, a much smaller place.

Kendra Davenport:

Much more densely populated than Little Maine.

Barbara Merrill:

But, you know, I mean, you know, whether you're going through politics or not, that doesn't matter. You know, the fact Oh,

Kendra Davenport:

I love that.

Barbara Merrill:

Harvard law professor, United States senator, She's like, you know, I won this thing.

Kendra Davenport:

And winner of the Betty Crocker.

Barbara Merrill:

Oh my god. I love it. I love that.

Kendra Davenport:

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for sharing so honestly. I you said you wore your heart on your sleeve, and you are totally transparent. I love this. I've loved our conversation, and we we like to end these episodes with an ask me anything segment.

So stick around for that. But before I do, I wanna ask Barbara just one final question. Barbara, anyone who knows me knows I am a voracious reader. I read everything. I read nonfiction. I read professional help books. I read biographies. I read trash, when I'm on vacation.

I don't have time. But, I do read a lot that, influences the way I manage the way I lead, the way I work. Is there something you've read recently? It doesn't necessarily even have to be a book, could be, you know, an article that has influenced your thinking or that you think other people would benefit from reading or knowing about.

Barbara Merrill:

We've read it, we we have a a staff diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility, book group. And I can I would just love to sort of share the titles of of what we read there?

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, I'd love to hear them. Please.

Barbara Merrill:

I mean, from from cast, you know, to, to reading a, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. A Toni Morrison book that I've never read before. You know, so I'm hugely motivated by that. I love, you know, I I like to read a number of different things. Brene Brown is a huge favorite because she's about vulnerability. Right? You know, she's about kinda getting up there and really opening up and and people connect with you know, I know I connect with people when they open up, you know, when they really share something. It's scary because he it's it's it's it's super, super scary.

So her lessons on that, but I'll share that right now. I'm reading something very light, but there are some wonderful leadership lessons in it. You know? I'm I'm because I'm gonna be, doing this hiking trip in France in at the end of the month. Someone recommended to me the detective Bruno, chief of police series, and it's, you know, about this French about this chief of police in this, little village in France. And the way that he navigates his town and respects you know, you know, he is, you know, he went in as an outsider and it's a little town. Right? Anytime I mean, you know, you can try to transport that for anything. Right? You go to work for a national organization. It's a little town.

Right? I mean, there's like little everywhere, but the way that he translated that to, you know, just really super understanding the need to kinda come in very lightly. While at the same time, he's gotta navigate, you know, the, you know, the the the National Federales or whatever they're called. The care you know, you know, the the national police from from Paris. They wanna kinda swoop in and demand on how everything, you know, wanna direct on how everything goes because the the you know, it's all it's about homicides. Right? You know? So sometimes you gotta bring, you know, some people in, but it's such a leadership lesson.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. Thank you. Thank you so much. This has been such a pleasure. Thanks for taking the time out. I hope you have some time in your garden today because it looks like it's sunny in Maine where you are now. Appreciate this. Appreciate learning a little bit more about you, and I'm never gonna forget the Betty Crocker story or the connection to Elizabeth Warren.

Thank you so much, Barbara. Now on to our ask me anything question, which today is a lot of time when I try to solicit feedback in a group meeting, no one is raising critical issues. How do you encourage participation when silence in the room does not always mean consent? I think silence in the room almost never means consent. I think, I think it's a sign that there is not consent. I think making people feel comfortable in sharing their feelings when they are likely not in line with yours as the leader, is is more dependent on the trust you've built over time than the trust in that given meeting. And sometimes I think you just have to attack an issue head on. And when they're, when dissension is met with silence, sometimes deafening silent silence, I think it's up to the leader to, to call it out and say, you know what? You need to push back. If you disagree with me, I want to hear what you have to say.

I may not change my mind, but you should be able to say freely what you think. And I think that's something that's a message you have to be saying routinely as a leader, because otherwise people aren't gonna believe it. They're not gonna really hear it. You also have to lead by example. Right? You have to make good. You have to give people room to talk. I'm not always good at that. I'm a talker.

I fill space. I also have very strong opinions about everything according to my husband from, you know, what I'm gonna have for dinner to who I believe should be in the White House. So I know now that that is intimidating to some people, that a leader who is so convicted in the way they feel about a given issue or all issues, can be, intimidating. It can be intimidating to dissent with them. And I think you have to openly tell your teams and people in meetings, you know, that you wanna hear from them. And whether they disagree with you or whether they agree with you, not all the news has to be good news and not everything has to be an affirmation of the way you feel. But it gets easier over time, and I think there is, there's no limit to what people can share, right, about their feelings. I was actually talking about this with someone, not too long ago, and they said, well, isn't there a tipping point where your staff is oversharing or where they feel they have a say in everything? And I don't really think so, because at the end of the day, you're responsible.

You're responsible for the actions of your staff, for your own actions, for the actions writ large of the organization you're managing as the CEO. And, you know, we just did a podcast with Barbara Merrill and she's, she essentially said, it's important that people, people feel they have a say and they have a vote and they have I'm paraphrasing, but that they're given room to express themselves, and that is transparency and leadership, but it doesn't happen overnight. It takes a while to build that and establish that trust, grow that trust, cultivate it, foster it. I think it just takes living what you want. Right? If you want people to share their thoughts, you have to give them the room and space to share their thoughts. Easterseals empowers people with disabilities and their families to be full and equal participants in their communities and within society. Easterseals is where everyone can feel welcomed and people know that they aren't judged, but treated with the dignity that they deserve. Each day, we provide life changing services nationwide and advocate for policies that improve quality of life.

From employment to housing services, to job training, childcare and respite care, adult day programs, and so much more. Easterseals is making a profound impact in thousands of communities every day. You can learn more by visiting easterseals.com. That concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you like what you heard, be sure to write a review. Like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and be sure to join us in the next episode as we discuss how we can all get on board with Transparent Leadership.