Episode 17: Rory Cooper’s Mission to Break Barriers in Education and Accessible Air Travel

Episode 17 Show Notes

“There is an urgent need for early intervention and robust support in STEM fields for people with disabilities.”

Rory Cooper is a member of the Easterseals National Board of Directors, a leader in rehabilitation science and technology, and a decorated Paralympian.

Rory highlights the need for personalized education and innovative assistive technologies for air travel. While he successfully re-engineered his own wheelchair for air travel, he points out that access should be available to everyone without the need to go through such lengths to ensure safe and accessible transportation. He also shares insights from his work on wheelchair design for airports and discusses the impact of the Americans with Disabilities Act, along with personal stories about resilience and the value of community support.

Links:

• Learn more about Rory Cooper on LinkedIn.
• Connect with Kendra Davenport.

Transcript

Rory Cooper:

I cover all 3 of the groups of veteran disabled veteran and person with a disability. I experienced life prior to the Americans with Disabilities Act which you know really transformed life for people with disabilities not in the united states but around the world. People ask me what was the biggest change in my life after the Americans with Disabilities Act and really quite frankly the biggest change was that the United States government recognized. And I think, eventually, the US citizens started to recognize that people with disabilities are citizens and have value in society. I think the challenge that you basically alluding to is that it's not so much that we need to do more for our veterans or events with disabilities or people disabilities. It's, we need to work more to, integrate them into society and to include them in opportunities because it's really good for all of us there's tremendous talent in our veterans population in our and in our population of people with disabilities that the US and the world could benefit from if only we provide the opportunities and the resources for people to contribute and also the recognition that they have value they can add value to our communities.

Kendra Davenport:

Welcome to On Board with Transparent Leadership, an Easterseals podcast. I'm Kendra Davenport, president and CEO of Easterseals, and I am joined today by doctor Rory Cooper, who is a board member at Easterseals. Rory has a really amazing background, and I'm gonna take a few minutes to tell you all just how amazing he is and read through his whole bio. I typically don't do that, but this is so impressive. And what we're going to cover today, I think, will really benefit from you knowing all that Rory has achieved in his life. Doctor Rory Cooper is the founding director and Virginia senior research career scientist of the human engineer Researching Laboratories at the University of Pittsburgh, where he also serves as the FISA and Paralyzed Veterans of America professor and distinguished professor of the department of rehabilitation science and technology. He's also professor of bioengineering, physical med and rehab, and orthopedic surgery. He's an adjunct professor at the Robotics Institute of Carnegie Mellon University as well as in physical medicine and rehab at the Uniform Services University of Health Sciences, named an honorary professor at Hong Kong Polytechnic University and Xi’an Jiatong, hope I'm getting that correct, university, where he was awarded an honorary doctorate.

Kendra Davenport:

Doctor Cooper has authored more than 350 peer reviewed journal publications and has more than 20 patents awarded or pending. The author of 2 books, his work has been covered by the New York Times, the Washington Post, Time Magazine, CNN, Forbes, NBC, ESPN, NPR, and other national and international media outlets. Doctor Cooper earned his BS and master engineering degrees in electrical engineering from Cal Poly and earned a PhD in electrical engineering and computer engineering with a concentration in bioengineering from the University of California at Santa Barbara. In 1988, he was a bronze medalist at the Paralympic Games in Seoul, Republic of Korea, and was awarded the International Paralympic Scientific Achievement Award in 2013. An elected fellow of the National Academy of Inventors, doctor Cooper is a recipient of numerous awards in queue including the Samuel e Hayman service to America medal and the secretary of defense meritorious civilian service medal and the National Guard Bureau Minuteman award. Wow. I mean, I gotta come up for air, Rory. That's an awful lot.

Kendra Davenport:

And, as I was saying to Rory, who my husband had the pleasure of meeting a couple years ago, He's jealous of this conversation today because Rory is a very impressive human being. And most of the people we interview, I have the pleasure of interviewing on this podcast are very impressive, but Rory kinda takes the cake. And I really want to thank you before we even get into this, Rory, for making time for this because I understand you have another pretty significant event here. You're gonna dash to as soon as we finish this conversation. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about that?

Rory Cooper:

Sure. The Heinz History Center, which actually is an affiliate of the Smithsonian, here in Pittsburgh, named after our former senators, John Heinz, as well as the Heinz family, which many of you know from their, condiments, is, opening an exhibit on me at the, in their museum today in Pittsburgh. So we have to run down there for a, press conference and sort of a, yeah, kind of a reveal ceremony.

Kendra Davenport:

Well, we won't keep you long. But while I have you, I wanna talk a little bit about leadership. I think, I think you're an innate leader, and I think you're very driven. Can you talk about some of the things that motivate you to do all you've done? I mean, even just your degrees, Rory. You're a lifelong student, so that takes drive. It also takes a lot of the qualities that we find in people who are innate leaders.

Rory Cooper:

You know, it's hard to say. I mean, I was in, you know, Eagle Scout, and I learned a lot from scouting and from our World War 2 veterans and Vietnam veterans that were the leadership in our scout troop. But, you know, my time in the army, I like to share people. When I went to the non commissioned officers basic course, they, you know, they taught you really I took over, like, sort of 2 important lessons, and one of them is the, concept of selfless service and doing something for something greater than yourself. And the other one is if you sort of take care of your people, they'll take care of you. And, and then I think after my, after my accident and winding up, you know, with a spinal cord injury and using a wheelchair and having to sort of redefine my life, I think, it didn't take me very long to discover that the needs of people with disabilities and how we were represented in society and what our capabilities were or what our opportunities were. And, I think that that drove me to and I've been very fortunate to have really great mentors. When I you know, my not only, scout leadership, but, a friend of mine from when I was a kid Gary English, we weren't our Eagle Scouts together.

Rory Cooper:

And then, great coaches in in the high school at the army. My army coach, Joe Young and I are still friends and communicate with each other. My, actually, my, my first company commander in the army, is a leader in the AMVETS, and, we're also still in contact with each other, which is amazing because it's been a few years since I served in the army. But, in my none of my undergraduate adviser when I was a doc a student, Saul Goldberg, he's also my master's adviser, was a wonderful mentor, and I probably got into this field professionally because of my graduate PhD adviser, Steve Horvath, has has since passed away. But, Steve, you know, one day, we spent more space and time talking to my office, and he sort of said, you know, you should really make rehabilitation engineering and technology and create opportunities for people with disabilities to your career. I don't can't I can't think of anybody that would be better at it. And so I think that's also helpful too because Mhmm. You need people that you can you can emulate, that you can learn from, and and that you could and that sort of could give you feedback along the way.

Rory Cooper:

And so that's I that's been very beneficial, for me, and I helped about me, I think, as a leader. And then, I you know, I'm very fortunate because I I right. For first, I work with a great team, that's highly motivated, highly talented, and, and Aster really has their heart in the right place. And then to, to work with and serve with other people with disabilities who are really trying to make a difference in the world, it's, makes it very you know, makes it easy as well.

Kendra Davenport:

You mentioned, you were an Eagle Scout, and I think that really takes us back to, you know, your adolescence, your early adolescence, and your commitment to service sort of permeates doesn't sort of. It permeates your entire career. And even now, I think the things that you focus on and as you said, really devoting your life to rehabilitation post accident and all of your degrees that evolve and revolve around that. Is that something that your parents instilled in you, the commitment to service, or is it something that evolved? And I ask that because, you know, I'm from a military family. I'm married to military. And, I think in my life, it is a theme that has been very, very prevalent, and I think it was derived, in large part from military service that my father committed to and my husband. How about you?

Rory Cooper:

So, so my father served in the in the in the army and, several of my great uncles and my uncles. And so, certainly, you know, that was something I thought of. I think the, and then, Mike said that the, you know, scout leaders and coaches were great mentors for me as well. So I, yeah, I think so. From an early age, you could see that community of military and veterans and people in their community giving back. I grew up in a small town in San Luis Obispo, California. It's a bit larger now, but it was quite a bit smaller when I was growing up. Well, actually, I 1st 10 years of my life, we grew up in East LA and Riverside, but in San Luis Obispo, it was a very small community.

Rory Cooper:

And you could you know, as a young person, I was influenced a lot by what the what Rotary would do and what, the Lions Club would do and the Alps Club and the different scouting events. And I think it just sort of instills how you have it's important to be part of your community and part to give back. And so that yeah. I think that started early on. And, of course, when you when I was real little, I feel we saw, you know, soldiers and others and what they would do. And so, I think so. And then, you know, I might when I did my own time in the military, I had the great fortune just to be with, amazing soldiers and units and leaders, and I think that sort of solidified, those early roots and led me to a a lifelong path, essentially.

Kendra Davenport:

You talked about many of the people who have been mentors to you. And I I'm a firm believer that mentors influence you throughout your life. Sometimes when you're not even aware that they're mentoring you, just leading by example and becoming people that you look up to, that you want to, as you said, emulate. When you think about mentorship, what are some of the qualities you think mentors and I'm sure you mentor people, Rory, just because of your your nature. So maybe you can talk a little bit about what you try to instill or impart as a mentor and what some of your your most memorable you mentioned them by name, at least 3, mentors instilled in you. What were those qualities that they brought to the relationship that helped you?

Rory Cooper:

I mean, I think the 2 things really is, time is the most valuable thing we have and, and being willing to give time and to and to sort of listen and to guide. And then I think the other one is genuinely caring, you know, taking a genuine interest in in another person or another people and in their success. And I think that that was that was really important for me. You know, when I I was injured, in 1980, for those of people that don't know, that's prior to the Americans with Stills and Stabilites Act and even prior to implementation of section 504 of the Rehab Act of 1973 for those people that really wanna get into the weeds. And, so that means that, you know, a lot of that this was common place to be employed as a person with a disability is still, going to college or university, getting a degree was, still very difficult. And, you know, finding a place to live, to fly, to drive, all of those were real challenges. You had to be 25 to rent a car. I was 21 when I, you know, when I got out of the hospital.

Rory Cooper:

And, so it's good to have people that thought, well, you know, you could you could do this. You could make something. You know, don't let these things stand in your way. I mean, my commander, Clarence McKnight or CE McKnight, When I was in the hospital, you know, he came to me and he said, don't let this stop you. You can you can go on and get a degree. You can make you can do great things. And,

Kendra Davenport:

And you have.

Rory Cooper:

And so that was you know, that all those things sort of influence you, and then try to do your best to to do the same thing for others.

Kendra Davenport:

Mhmm. Can you talk a little I think, voices like that when we're at our lowest. Right? And that had to be devastating when you were injured. When we're at our lowest, when we're questioning ourselves, voices that help lead us up through those challenge lift us up through those challenges are people that I think are so inspiring. Can you talk a little bit about that and what it's like to lead through adversity? What what does it take? I mean, I think you could look at all you've achieved, Rory, and say, wow. He's just a a supernatural human being to to have accomplished all this. Or you could say he's someone who applies these principles, and I'm certain it's the latter. So can you talk a little bit about the things that influence your ability to rise above the challenges? And not just the physical challenge.

Kendra Davenport:

I'm talking just everyday life and in work, because I think I think you definitely have the secret sauce nailed. So so tell us. What is it?

Rory Cooper:

Well, I think, you know, if I could quote CD Slickers, you know, it's everybody has to find that for themselves. Right? And the, I mean, I think for me, I'm I have a pretty high capacity for work. And

Kendra Davenport:

Do you? I think you got enough degrees to count on both hands. So that's clearly the case. So okay. Your work ethic is one thing. What else, Roy?

Rory Cooper:

So I think that's it. You know, I was, I'm a I was a runner. I still like to hand cycle and, you know, some wheelchair racing and stuff. And those are so I'm o I'm okay. You know, I'm I don't I enjoy pushing myself and sort of pushing the pushing the limits. And I think having that I so it develops both mental and physical stamina. Right? That, you know, you can then I've actually ridden my hand cycle from Pittsburgh to Washington DC. For those of you who don't know, that's about 340 miles by

Kendra Davenport:

How'd you even come up with the idea to do that? What was that just a

Rory Cooper:

So I came up I didn't really come up with the idea to do that. A, our local veterans leadership program did it as a wanted to do a fundraiser, for, to help homeless veterans in the region and reemployment of veterans. And so I thought to myself, I'd really like to be part of that. And so I, yeah, I trade up for it and did it. And the only downside was, talking about, you know, if you want to buy testing yourself. Yeah. The idea is, oh, let's have it end on 4th July at the Pentagon. That seemed like a really good idea.

Rory Cooper:

I don't think we thought through it at the time that the 4th July in Washington DC can be wicked hot

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah.

Rory Cooper:

And humid. And

Kendra Davenport:

Yep. Always humid in the summer in DC.

Rory Cooper:

So about a 120 of us started in Pittsburgh and about 30 of us finished. But, it was good. It's, yeah, sort of that same thing, teamwork and people helping each other and, you know, it also showed preparation is important. Those who was prepared made it. Those who didn't prepare didn't make it. And I think but I also think that, you know, there's you know, in the army and you're in in a lot of the branches of service, sometimes you have to have to learn to embrace the suck. Right? And then, and that's how you get through. Also, you know, you know, it takes a lot of work to take on hard problems, and, takes teamwork to take on hard problems.

Rory Cooper:

And, you just have to be, you know, willing to prepare and willing to make it make the effort and put it through. And so I think those, you know, those things all helped me over the years. And, and then I think the other thing is not being afraid of failing.

Kendra Davenport:

You know, it's I think that's huge because I think all of us are a little bit afraid of failure, and you've heard all the quotes. You know? You gotta fail to win, and sometimes failure is a win. You just don't see it at the right time. But I think that's also, you know, I think requires a comfortable a level of comfort with vulnerability.

Rory Cooper:

Right? Sure. Well, 2 things. 1, you know, at sports, you learn that you have you lose you're not gonna win every game, and you're gonna lose sometimes. And, you know, even as a runner, you live you're not gonna win every race, and you have to learn to adapt to losing. But, you know, the other thing is if you I've, unfortunately, come to your death three times, and that gives you some perspective on life about, when it comes to, sort of take you know, to face difficult challenges and overcome them. Right? And, and then also it gives you that perspective that, you know, if I don't get a grant, it's not the same thing as being in intensive care for a week.

Kendra Davenport:

Oh my gosh.

Rory Cooper:

Absolutely. So, it's the truth. You know, you get that perspective that, you know, I, in the movie, as good as this kid, like Jack Nicholson said, it's not like, our life is so bad. It's just that some people's lives is just picnics and noodle salad. So you just get used to it over you know, at some point, just realize that, this is not the worst thing that can happen to you. That's true.

Kendra Davenport:

That's true.

Rory Cooper:

And so you just, you know, you just the point is get back up and go Yeah.

Kendra Davenport:

We're through.

Rory Cooper:

Right? And that you know, a lot of times what you learn too is if you do that, you know, that's how you make a difference because a lot of other people will quit along the way. And if so, if you don't if you don't quit on yourself and you don't quit on others, then you can you go a long ways.

Kendra Davenport:

You know, Easterseals is very committed to supporting veterans, and we have been since World War 2, the end of World War 2. And I I think and I'm very open about my feelings regarding supporting veterans. I just don't think we I don't think we are doing enough as a nation for our veterans. I don't think we're doing enough to support our disabled veterans and people with disabilities writ large. And I think there's a long way to go. Can you talk a little bit about that and your feelings? Because one of the things we've talked about on many of these podcasts is our commitment to accessibility, Easterseals commitment that is. And in the past year or so, we launched the, you know, accessible air travel campaign to make air travel, you know, more accessible to people with disabilities. And I know you and I had a conversation a few years ago, and you served on a panel at our forum and talked about how difficult it's been for you and to travel, to do as much as you've done.

Kendra Davenport:

You're a speaker. You're a renowned speaker. You've traveled all over the world. Can you talk a little bit about how you tackled that? Because I don't wanna give it away what you've done to be able to travel, but it is pretty impressive. And I think you serve as such a sterling example of what we talked about, you know, overcoming adversity and adapting. Talk a little bit about that.

Rory Cooper:

Sure. But I think just got a couple of questions nested in there.

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah. Yeah. I I gave you a a lot to cover.

Rory Cooper:

I mean, I I cover all 3 of the groups of veteran, disabled veteran, and person with a disability. And I, you know, I've got to I experienced life prior to the Americans with Disabilities Act, which, you know, really transformed life for people with disabilities, not in the United States, but around the world. And I people ask me what was the biggest change, in my life after the Americans with Disabilities Act. And, really, quite frankly, the biggest change was that at least the United States government recognized, and I think eventually, the the United States started to recognize that people with disabilities are citizens and they have value in society. I think that I think the challenge that you're basically alluding to is that, it's it's not so much that we need to do more for our veterans or veterans with disabilities or people with disabilities is, we need to work more to, integrate them into society and to, and and and to include them in opportunities because it's really good for all of us. There's tremendous talent in our veterans population, in our in our population of people with disabilities that the US and the world could benefit from, if only we provide the the the opportunities and the resources for people to contribute. And, also, the the recognition that that they they have value. They can add value to our communities.

Rory Cooper:

And they do add value for our communities, and they can add more value with given the opportunities. And I think, that that is I think often, that where we where we where we fall short in all of those communities. And it's you know, I sort of view it from an engineer's view that we the way we solve problems is we can, you know, you can use calculus, You can use transforms and use algebra. You can use, you know, topology and mapping. And there's all kinds of different techniques that engineers and physicists and scientists with over the, you know, over the centuries. And it's the same thing if you include women and men and people with disabilities and people of color and different, you know, ethnic and racial and origin countries and life experience and veteran status and whether they have a disability or not is how you, is how you how you can tackle grand challenges or big problems by working together. And, I also believe that everybody has valuable have value, and everybody can add to both intellectual and social capacity. And and and that's that's the problem.

Rory Cooper:

If you start to exclude people or you don't include people, sometimes it's it's done, you know, unconscious, you know, with no the unconscious bias. And and, so we need to make an effort really to reach out and provide opportunities. And, I'm I'm also biased because I am an engineer, and I, you know, I think that there's a tremendous opportunity for more representation of veterans and people with disabilities, including our veterans with disabilities. If they, first in STEM careers, I like to say science, technology, engineering, mathematics, and medicine. So 2 m's, medicine being the broader health scheme, and, where people can also bring their lived experiences into it as well. I mean, a lot of peep the military is a very technical field now. People often don't realize that and, the skills that they learn. I tell leaders I you know, a few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to speak to the at the surgeon general's conference and speak to all the the general officers in medicine.

Rory Cooper:

And one of the things I told him and, you know, not trying to brag. But I said, there are Rory Coopers in your formation right now, and there's some private out there that, is, you know, 34 years now gonna do some amazing things. And, you need to realize that. Right? It's just because they're early in their military career, early in their adult life for that matter. Doesn't mean that they, they don't have a lot of talent. They don't have a lot of drive, and it means, you know, there are some really great people out there, and, you should be aware of that. I think it's the same thing as, you know, there are, hopefully, our school teachers or college professors and and trade schools and community colleges are also realizing that there are amazing veterans and people with disabilities that are already in their, in their classrooms or in their workplaces that if given greater opportunity, could could shine even brighter and make even greater accomplishments. And I've you know, one of my one of my favorite topics and concerns is that that we often lose our kids with disabilities about middle school.

Kendra Davenport:

Why do you think that is, Rory?

Rory Cooper:

Well, I think it is is because after middle school, curricula starts to be more individualized. So you can sort of take this track of you're gonna go to college, you're gonna go to trade school, or, you're, you know, just gonna go straight into the workforce. Or and, oftentimes, we look at our kids with disabilities and say, wow. You know, including them in the science lab or in biology class is is difficult. So we're just gonna, sort of push them over to this on their direction. And and that limits their it actually says to them, we don't think you can do this when they might want to do this and might have an interest in doing it. Maybe they were really good at, you know, at their childhood toys and those toys that they where they could do programming and build robots and and things like that. And then all of a sudden, they've got people they respect and who have influence over their futures, sort of discouraging them or at least not encouraging them.

Rory Cooper:

And, and then I, you know, I think, and I've had the privilege of cheering some National Academy committees and serving them somewhere where we you know, you know, and it always comes down to, you know, if at least in the STEM careers, you know, peer mentors and role models, and, accessibility of laboratories, accessibility of software, curriculum design, and fieldwork. And, we need we really need to work collectively to solve those problems. One, because we want all of our young people to have the opportunities to preserve whatever their, talent wherever their talents and interests lie, navigate any any kind of impairment, whether that's, you know, physical, sensory, intellectual, cognitive, or economic, shouldn't be a barrier. Right? We should, at least and so that's that's one of the things that I you know, Easterseals provides. I mean, I you know, one of the programs I think is amazing is, like, make the first five count. Right? So and, because it recognizes you can, you can be disadvantaged pretty early on. And so, there are Easter Seals helping with with kids with, that are, you know, cognitively different or, or or for that matter, have hearing impairments. And one of my one of my colleagues here was diagnosed with hearing impairment by Easterseals and, when he was a kid.

Rory Cooper:

And, you know, now is, you know, going on to be very successful. And, and it you know, it would but you as you know, Kendra, very well, if you don't get those, you know, if those children are neurodiverse or have a hearing impairment or a visual impairment or, you know, or maybe have a a mobility impairment, they don't get recognized early and get assistance early. They could be pigeonholed as, you know, not being able or, you know, abuse thing.

Kendra Davenport:

So true, Rory. The earlier that intervention takes place, the better those children do throughout their educational life. And and studies correlate. The earlier the intervention is made, the better chances of keeping those kids in school, you know, post middle school, like like you said. 2 things. I wanna go back to my 5 questions in one question that I gave you. You covered everything except the one I really wanted you to talk about, and you're it's because you're so humble. But you told me and you told people you talked to on that panel I referenced, what you did to be able to fly, what you do to be able to fly.

Kendra Davenport:

And I think if I have this correct, you know, you you reengineered your wheelchair. Did you not?

Rory Cooper:

I did. I, yeah, I reengineered my wheelchair. I'm actually looking to maybe reengineer again because they keep changing the aircraft in, you know, the interiors. But, you know, flying is actually, we have, some projects funded by, the agency on community living to look at, at flying. So a couple of things. So what I've done, I've reinjured my wheelchair, so I can use it as a mile chair. I can store in the overhead compartment or in the wheelchair accessible closet. Although that's an education thing.

Rory Cooper:

Almost every time I fly, 2 things. I I kid a lot of times the pilot or or the, person will come out and say, oh, mister creeper, you're gonna have to get the aisle chair. You'll never get down the chair aisle of the airplane in your chair. And I say, I'll bet you the cost of this airplane if you if I get down in my seat in this chair. Most of them don't have the authority to do that. But, and then they're very shocked. It's like, oh, we go, man. That's amazing.

Rory Cooper:

Everybody should have one like that. I probably should if you fly evenly, but, you know, that's something where it has to be made broadly commercially available. And that's also sort of a cheeky thing about how how we don't take you know, the VA takes a very holistic view of assistive technology to provide community reintegration and allow veterans to, you know, fully contribute to society. Most people, though, live off of, private private insurance, which is, very restrictive, and it doesn't necessarily take a very holistic view, but more takes a minimal health maintenance view. And, and then, you know, in some cases, I could put it in the closet. We have to do a little education once in a while. I have to fly on longer flights with my wife, and, you know, they're usually crews put their luggage in there because because it's empty a lot of the times, and it's a kind of a natural human thing to do. But the attic's really exciting.

Rory Cooper:

Well, you know, really, you see there's kind of a wheelchair symbol on there. They are carrier access at. That's kind of where the wheelchairs are supposed to be stored. And, I know it's an inconvenient, but you really do need to move your luggage somewhere else. Most of them do when they get educated. Most of them don't realize that that's actually what that that symbol and that that fine text that you're gonna find around the closet says. And, you know, it's so it's kind of interesting, you know, the now what we're actually looking at is, you know, not only making that, my lab's actually working on a new, wheelchair that you can use in the airport and converts to an all chair. And so the airports, when people that don't use the wheelchair, you know, they only use it at the airport, could actually get around and then not have to transfer twice to get to the seat.

Rory Cooper:

But we're also working to, allow people who use power wheelchairs to stay seated in their power chair when they fly. They're, I know, Kendra, you're aware and and those that are actively involved in the in the area realize that, a lot of people don't fly or or have stopped flying because they need their, oxygen source or their rest their their ventilator respirator. They need their power seat functions, to sustain to sustain their health, even sustain their life, and they can't really sit in an airplane seat.

Kendra Davenport:

Mhmm. Are you encouraged by the strides that have been made, Rory, or do you think it's moving too slowly?

Rory Cooper:

My perspective is over 45 years. So, you know, it's it's it is, I'm encouraged that at least we are not only in the discussion, we're, you know, actually doing designs. Air air the aircraft manufacturers, the airline industry, and and the, that because the and the ally organizations of people with disabilities are, we're all talking at least, and all of us agree that something needs to be done. We haven't agreed necessarily what needs to be done, but we have agreed that something needs to be done and that needs to be comprehensive. There, I'm optimistic with the changes that occurred in the Air Carrier Access Act recently, are taking a positive step in the right direction. I also think there's an economic argument for it. You know? Even if you just look at, you know, can you again, the family travel with, with grandma and grandpa who need to, you know, stay in the wheelchair when they travel, or even if they transfer them, that they could do it more easily. And or if they've got a, themselves with a disability, they stopped traveling and the family no longer can travel either or kids.

And that's it's not just, you know, it's not just leisure travel. Right? It is access to specialty health care. It's it's employment related travel. It's, it you know, it could be you know, our our if you think about participation in our own government and leadership is limit limited by some extent if you you can't get to the state capital or you can't get to Washington DC. So there are leaders who can can hear what what constituent needs are, so they only hear from a limited set of constituents.

Kendra Davenport:

You know, that's so true, Rory, and I think you you are aware. We, we have a a gentleman on our team. He's he's a consultant. He's a full time consultant. His name is Rob Engel. He's a disabled man, and and he works on government relations. And he's told me repeatedly, you know, it's I'd love to come to the Hill with you. It's not as easy for me.

You know, I am I use forearm crutches, and he said, I know where every dip, every break in the sidewalk is, every uneven surface, and and we don't think about that. Can you if you think about and you've you've referenced it a few times, the the importance and the the watershed event that the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act was 33, 34 years ago. But when you think about that today, Rory, what what needs to be modified? What in your mind is the is the primary adjunct or modification that needs to be made to take people with disabilities even farther to make our society better? Is there one thing or are there multiple things that you think are imperative at this point?

Rory Cooper:

Well, there there's multiple things. Although I think the most important thing, in my my view is is, gainful employment. I think it changes it will change culture and change ex and change access. And if, if we see more people with disabilities in the workplace, if they're if they're colleagues, supervisors, and leaders. I mean, well, just to give you an ex like what Tammy Duckworth has been able to do for the senate. You know, she's not the first Jim Langan in the house, and and there's there's been a few here and there. But every time they come in, they they transform that organization. And and, and, you know, and that's sort of a unique example to some extent.

Oh, that's been great that we've had, you know, Bob Dole and, you know, ever since World War 2, unfortunately, there's there's been some well, for that matter, Franklin Delano Roosevelt. So we've, you know, we have a long history of getting change agents at national leadership. But, really, you know, the, the other you know, you wanna see changes of, you know, big surf is the inventor of the Internet. He's one of the vice presidents of Alphabet. That's the parent company for Google who is, hearing impaired. And, you know, and when you've got something at that level and they talk about we need to make accommodations for for people with disabilities so they could productive members of our, you know, of our teams. And that's, you know, that's important, and that's that if you you need we need more of that. Right? So there, it that way you could see you don't always see people with disabilities, like, well, we need to make an accommodation for them so they can get to the ground.

Kendra Davenport:

It's integrated. It's just Right.

Rory Cooper:

It's all integrated. Right. And then all level. So we need to be, you know, all sectors of employment, all levels of employment. And and it's I think it help would help the US help global economy, global integration. But that's how you that's how we're gonna make the next step in progress. And that will lead to whatever what other physical accommodations we need. Right? So, that could be you know, obviously, if you're if you could if, you know, one of us becomes the CEO of one of the major airlines, you could basically just say, like, we're gonna--

Kendra Davenport:

It would be a game changer, wouldn't it?

Rory Cooper:

Right. We're gonna make this happen. Right? And, and, of course, if they do and that and it finds out that they get paid market share, you're gonna see everybody else, follow-up.

Kendra Davenport:

You you touched on it. Americans with disabilities account for a quarter of a population. You know, a quarter of all Americans identify as being disabled, and and I think that that fact gets lost in the mix. We talk a lot about the cost of adapting things to make them more accessible. What we don't talk about is what you touched on, the economic impact of of engaging and integrating more people with disabilities in the workforce, in tourism, in travel, in health care, in education. I think we just need to flip the switch on that.

Rory Cooper:

I do. Then now with that, you know, they're we all have, hopefully, we all have friends and family. Right? So they're, so it really touches all of us. And in some of it's, you know, pretty common sense, stuff. And some of the people, use every day. You know, AI, which everybody's talking about now, you know, the first practical applications of AI were for people with disabilities. Spell check, word predictions, then literal phrase prediction, sentence prediction, and now it's generative AI. You know, smartphones came about, and texting was made as an accommodation for individuals who are hearing impaired.

Rory Cooper:

Right? It really came down to the TTY system and even before that. And, I'd be willing to bet that there are more, tweens and teens that text than there are hearing impaired individuals.

Kendra Davenport:

You're I think you definitely got that right. Thank you. So I I so appreciate you giving your unvarnished, you know, your candid thoughts on everything from disability to education to mentorship and leadership. But can you tell us one thing people can't Google about you? There's something about you that that people just can't find out if they were to Google you and and look for more information on Rory Cooper on the Internet. What would that be?

Rory Cooper:

Yeah. There's well, there's probably a there's a there's a couple of things. So, I'm a childless cat lover.

Kendra Davenport:

Not a lady, but a childless cat lover. Love that. Good answer, Roar. That's terrific. Thank you. Thank you. I have one more question, before I let you go. We like to end all of our episodes with an ask me anything segment, so stick around for that.

Kendra Davenport:

But before I do, one last question for you, Rory, and that is, you know, I often say on these things, I love to read. I I think I probably don't read a fraction of what you read, and I consider myself an avid reader. So this is a loaded question. Is there anything you're reading right now, fiction or or nonfiction, that you would recommend to our listeners? It doesn't have to be about disability. It doesn't have to be about leadership. It can be just something you're enjoying or that has been impactful, something you've read or are reading recently?

Rory Cooper:

Well, right now, I'm reading 2 books, the boys in the boat, which...

Kendra Davenport:

I saw that on the New York time bestseller list.

Rory Cooper:

Yes. And, and that's, that was funny because I I spoke at the National Academies and gave their lecture on science and society. And, I mentioned that, you know, when I was a student, I kind of asked ROTC to help me carry me up the stairs and stuff because engineers are not necessarily your, the most athletic of the the member of the food community. But they they pointed out to me that the, the boys in the boat, both of those were, engineers and Olympians. I'd probably be an engineer in the Paralympian. So there there's a there are exceptions to the rule. The other book I'm reading, my wife recommended. It's actually it, was published in the early 19 sixties.

Rory Cooper:

It's called the King's Orchard. It probably wouldn't interest most people, but it's about the origins of Pittsburgh.

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, neat. Well, as somebody who's residing in Pittsburgh, I'm sure you like it.

Rory Cooper:

Yes. That's very interesting, that, it's a it's a it's sort of a fictional book, but with, you know, true characters intertwined into it, you know, lower life characters. And it's, and it's fine because we live here. You know, the names of these people that helped found the city, the names of the streets and and and some of the neighborhoods and districts here. So, that's kind of a that's a book I'm reading too. It's, it's a little lighter, but it's kind of also interesting to see the origins of our city. And, the University of Pittsburgh founding is in the is in the book as well. And and, it's also kind of funny because if you go on the campus of the University Pittsburgh, there's a a replica of the original University of Pittsburgh, which is basically a a one room log schoolhouse.

Rory Cooper:

So...

Kendra Davenport:

Come a long way since then.

Rory Cooper:

Yeah. And then I'm a big fan of, Richard Feynman's books. For those people that know, Richard Feynman was a Nobel laureate physicist. I've read, all of his books. His textbooks on physics as well as his his his books on life. And, he was, obviously brilliant. It's most people, you know, if you're gonna win the Nobel Prize in physics, you have to usually be a fairly smart person. And I had the good I had the privilege of actually getting to see him give a lecture, when he was still alive back in the early 19 eighties and, also quite a quite an amazing, speaker as well.

Rory Cooper:

And I and so his books are really great, and they have some really wonderful lessons in life about not taking yourself too seriously and and and also sort of exploring, never losing, you know, some of the the childhood aspects of childhood wonder, throughout your life because that you let's you to to be open to new things and explore new things. And then so I've got those books I you know, I'd like any any anyone that find the books.

Kendra Davenport:

Well, I think that's a great note to end on because I think you are definitely open to exploring new things. Your whole life is is epitomizes that that thought process. Thank you so much, Rory. I have so enjoyed this, and I I could ask you 20 more questions. We might have to do a part 2. Trying to get on your calendar, it'll take us a year. So maybe we meet again at this time next year and continue this conversation. Between now and then, I hope to see a lot more of you and and just really want to extend my heartfelt thanks.

Kendra Davenport:

Thank you.

Rory Cooper:

Oh, thank you so much, Kendra. Thank you for the opportunity, and thank you to Easter Seals. You know, the one thing that I don't I guess the other thing that let people know about me, but, when I was first injured the first time, Easter seals was sort of instrumental in helping me access the VA and, and, actually introducing me to wheelchair sports and and things like that. So it it used to be Easter Seals of Central California. Now I think several Easter Seals out there emerge. But, you know, that it's that's, that gave me early appreciation for the work that Easter Seals does across the across the continuum of people with disabilities.

Kendra Davenport:

I actually think that's one of the the best things we do, to support veterans is help them identify what services are really available, help them navigate the morass of health care resources that are available to them and and the morass of paperwork and, you know, just logistics. It it requires to avail themselves to, yes, what they get through the VA, but also through private medicine, through the state, through their local, you know, NGO providers like Easterseals. So love that we close on that. Again, thank you so much, Rory. Really appreciate this. Now on to ask me anything. So here is our question. In your experience, how does fostering a transparent culture impact employee innovation and creativity? Are there specific practices you've seen that can enhance this aspect even beyond regular feedback? Well, I think beyond regular feedback, feedback is important.

Unvarnished feedback, I think, to employees, that goes both ways. Right? That goes from manager to direct report and direct report to manager. And I think it's important to ensure that employees feel that they're safe in saying, this look. This isn't working, or I didn't understand when you gave me this directive, or I think we could do this more efficiently, or I have a new idea I'd like to run by you. I don't think employees feel comfortable sharing those kind of things with leaders, with managers, unless they're operating in a in a culture in a work culture where transparency is valued. Transparency creates opportunity for vulnerability, and developing a level of comfort around vulnerability is, I think, one of the most critical things, any organization needs if they really espouse a commitment to transparency. Because transparency means the good, the bad, the ugly, the different, the, unspoken is okay to voice. And and if it's not, then that transparency is gonna be extinguished before the light even takes hold.

So I think I think it needs you need to work at creating a culture where people can safely share differing opinions. And and that's been a struggle for me because I'm someone who always has a very strong opinion. So as a as a manager, I sometimes have to bite my tongue and or tell people, you know, I I feel this way, but don't be shy about telling me you feel differently. And saying and doing are 2 different things. Right? You have to you have to inculcate or imbue that in in your direct reports, in the in your colleagues, you know, that they're safe, differing, voicing a different opinion, that they're that you're not gonna hold it against them. Or if your opinions like mine my family often tells me, mom, you feel strongly about everything from, you know, the color of your of your shirt in the morning to how you feel about societal issues. And that's not untrue. I do I am pretty passionate.

And I I recognize, now, you know, 35, 36 years into my career, that can be intimidating as a leader and someone in a position of leadership to people who aren't. You know? So, that's something I'm working on. I'm a work in progress like we all are, and I think listening more, talking less also helps people to feel comfortable sharing and to creating that culture of transparency. You can create it. Preserving it is is another thing. It takes an awful lot to sustain a culture of transparency because there let's face it. There are often shocks. There are things that happen that cause us to second guess ourselves.

You know, we're human. We make mistakes. We get angry. We get frustrated. We express those frustrations. People take it personally. There's all kinds of things that can derail a culture of transparency. And, again, it goes back to a level of comfort, with vulnerability, but also humility.

I think leaders, managers need to be comfortable, need to get comfortable saying, okay. I was wrong. Or even more so, I was wrong, and I'm sorry. That is not easy to do for anyone, but for a leader when you're going down a path and you're bringing everyone along with you and sometimes kicking and screaming. You know? Sometimes people don't don't see things your way, and you're trying to get them to do what you want them to do, what you think is the best thing, and then it turns out that that isn't the best thing. It didn't work. I think resisting the the very natural urge to contract information and keep it close when things aren't going right, and instead, open kimono. Look.

This didn't go the way we wanted it to. We need to do better. We'll do better in the future, I think, is where, good leadership really begins and poor leadership ends. That concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you like what you heard, be sure to write a review. Like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and be sure to join us in the next episode as we discuss how we can all get on board with Transparent Leadership.